Blackbird Questions, Anyone?

Bill Fox, project coordinator for the Lockheed Skunkworks (and the guy who
donated all the unbelievably cool stuff in our "Blackbird Suite") is going
to be visiting us again soon.

Bill actually ran Area 51 for a few years, and was instrumental in the
development and deployment of the SR-71 (and a whole slew of other stuff
that hasn't been declassified yet.) from Kelly Johnson's Lockheed
Skunkworks.

I've made a list of questions to ask him when he gets here, but if you have
any questions about the Blackbird, the U-2, or any other Lockheed Skunkworks
stuff, post 'em here and I'll ask him for ya!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Qo6vd.561259$D%.17160@attbi_s51...
Bill Fox, project coordinator for the Lockheed Skunkworks (and the guy who
donated all the unbelievably cool stuff in our "Blackbird Suite") is going
to be visiting us again soon.

Bill actually ran Area 51 for a few years, and was instrumental in the
development and deployment of the SR-71 (and a whole slew of other stuff
that hasn't been declassified yet.) from Kelly Johnson's Lockheed
Skunkworks.

I've made a list of questions to ask him when he gets here, but if you
have any questions about the Blackbird, the U-2, or any other Lockheed
Skunkworks stuff, post 'em here and I'll ask him for ya!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

Please ask Bill if the story regarding the 71's designation and LBJ is
true...

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71 for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

Thanks,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Please ask Bill if the story regarding the 71's designation and LBJ is
true...

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71 for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

The placard beside the SR-71 at the March AFB museum in Riverside tells
that story, and if I recall correctly, it also said that they change the
tires after every six landings.

wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Please ask Bill if the story regarding the 71's designation and LBJ is
true...

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71 for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an
SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

The placard beside the SR-71 at the March AFB museum in Riverside tells
that story, and if I recall correctly, it also said that they change the
tires after every six landings.

Thanks for the information. Is it okay for Jay to ask the questions,
anyway?

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71
for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an
SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

According to Bill, this is 100% true. He still laughs about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think Johnson did us a great favor. SR-71 sounds much cooler than RS-71.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71
for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an
SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

According to Bill, this is 100% true. He still laughs about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Supposedly, the original official designation should have been RS-71
for
"reconisance - strategic" but LBJ muddled the words and called it an
SR-71
when it was unveiled to the public...

No one wanted to correct the Prez so it stuck...True? False?

According to Bill, this is 100% true. He still laughs about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


Hehehe...cool.

Thanks!

Jay B

Hehehe...cool.

Thanks!

Other cool tidbits from Bill:

Regarding the D-21 drone: They had many problems with the engine
"unstarting" which, in Bill's opinion, could have easily been solved by
installing a "translating spike" in the engine intake, like on the SR-71
itself. The D-21's engine designer was opposed to the plan, which would
have added weight to the drone, and successfully argued against it --
resulting in the unnecessary loss of several drones, and a couple of SR-71s.

The P-80 program. In 1944 they sent 5 P-80s, built virtually by hand,
from scratch at the Skunkworks (their first plane was the P-38 Lightning,
BTW), to Italy. Because the engines only lasted about 5 hours before
destroying themselves, the pilots were instructed to go "fly the planes near
the enemy, but don't engage them." After each mission, the tail numbers
were changed, so that the Germans would believe that we had dozens of jet
fighters in theater!

Security. At Lockheed's Burbank, CA facility, they were testing the
SR-71's fuel tank and the explosive nature of the special fuel the Blackbird
used. They drained a tank, leaving fumes in it, and heated it to hundreds
of degrees, to simulate in-flight conditions. It, of course, exploded,
blowing the building to bits and starting a raging fire.

When the fire department responded, they ran up against the 10-foot,
razor-wire-topped fence -- and guards who would NOT let them inside.
Apparently no one had thought to give a security clearance to the fire
department -- even though it was LOCKHEED'S fired department! The firemen
were left to aim their hoses at whatever could be reached -- from outside
the fence. (According to Bill, the water caused extensive damage to their
testing equipment -- he was working with Honeywell at that time on the
Blackbird's autopilots...)

Fly by wire. The Blackbird had fly-by-wire capability AND conventional
push-rod and cable controls. Most of the time it was flown by the
autopilots, using the fly-by-wire servos, but the pilots liked knowing that
things were still hooked up conventionally if all the electrons failed.

The pilots. Several pilots achieved over 1000 hours -- at Mach 3 or
higher! This plane was USED, a LOT.

Flying the plane. It was dangerous. They lost 15 of them, primarily to
"pilot error." They lost several after refueling, when the pilots would
try to zoom to altitude, trying to get over weather or whatever. The
pilots would pull back too aggressively, which would cause the SR-71 to
pitch up violently. If the plane was going fast enough, it would break in
half right behind the cockpit. In one accident, the back seater hit the
water dead, while the front seat guy was badly injured. It was determined
that during the aircraft breakup, the right wing somehow hit the fuselage
where the "RESCUE" handles were located. When these handles are pulled, the
crew's straps are disengaged, so that rescuers can pull them out cleanly.

Apparently the wing triggered this mechanism, cutting the crew's straps.
This allowed them to tumble around the cockpit unrestrained. When the plane
pitched up, the pilots were exposed to first positive and then negative Gs.
In the meantime, the pilot's canopy came off, while the back seater's
remained in place. When the plane went into negative Gs, the pilot was
thrown clear, while the back seater was thrown violently into the canopy,
breaking his neck. On the SECOND tumble, the back seater's canopy came off,
and he, too, was thrown clear.

The parachute sequence was automatic, so he floated gently down, quite dead.
As Bill said "It took us quite a while to figure that one out..."

Killing the SR-71 project. We would have found the Scud missiles in
Iraq easily, if the Blackbird was still in service. Its cameras could look
obliquely at things, seeing into caves and canyons that couldn't be viewed
from outer space. In his opinion, Clinton killing the program was "putting
politics ahead of the Nation"...

Building the Blackbird today. He flatly says it couldn't be done. In
the time it took to build the SR-71 (two years), we wouldn't even have the
first piece manufactured, thanks to increased "government oversight".

This is illustrated by the following. The P-80, from start to first
flight, took 90 days. The U-2, from start to first flight, took 6 months.
The SR-71, from start to first flight, took two years. Each plane had a
little more "government help" -- and took much longer to complete.

He said by the time he worked on the Stealth program -- which took years --
there were 50 government workers, doing what one guy did on the SR-71
program. He said the meetings that were held to satisfy all these guys
("Each one had to ask a question to justify his existence, which then
required a formal, written response that could take anywhere from ten days
to six months...") were taking most of his time by the time he retired.

The danger of working on the program. Many pilots were lost in this
super secret program, without fanfare. But what few people remember is how
dangerous the plane was to work on. The hydraulic system, specially
designed for high temperatures, was operated at 3350 psi. The hydraulic
fluid, if it leaked, would vaporize as it came out at 650 degrees. By the
time the plane cooled down, the leak could no longer be found -- so it HAD
to be tested at high temperatures and pressure.

On one occasion, a technician had the system pressurized and heated, and
found the leak he was looking for. Stupidly, he instinctively put his
gloved hand over the leak, which instantly bored a hole clean through his
glove -- and his hand.

I meet some pretty interesting people at the inn -- but none more
interesting than Bill.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ektvd.189728$V41.138784@attbi_s52...
Hehehe...cool.

Thanks!

Other cool tidbits from Bill:


Security. At Lockheed's Burbank, CA facility, they were testing the
SR-71's fuel tank and the explosive nature of the special fuel the
Blackbird used. They drained a tank, leaving fumes in it, and heated it
to hundreds of degrees, to simulate in-flight conditions. It, of course,
exploded, blowing the building to bits and starting a raging fire.


Hey Jay,

Double check something else with Bill if you still have him available...

JP-12:

So, they fill the SR-71 on the ground and it would leak like a sieve until
it got up to altitude and expansion of the airframe "sealed" the leaks
(necessitating an immediate tanker join once airborne...)

So here's the kicker, I recall reading that you could make a torch out of a
T-Shirt on a stick, light it, dunk it in a bucket of JP-12 and the JP-12
would do nothing but extinguish your torch...JP-12 was anything BUT
explosive and it required immense pressures to get it to ignite (fumes, of
course, are a different kettle of fish.)

Jay B

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:44:10 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

The P-80 program. In 1944 they sent 5 P-80s, built virtually by hand,
from scratch at the Skunkworks (their first plane was the P-38 Lightning,
BTW), to Italy. Because the engines only lasted about 5 hours before
destroying themselves, the pilots were instructed to go "fly the planes near
the enemy, but don't engage them." After each mission, the tail numbers
were changed, so that the Germans would believe that we had dozens of jet
fighters in theater!

Jay, I've been wondering about this since I first read it three days
ago.

What did they mean "fly the planes near the enemy"? Does this mean
the enemy on the ground? I'd guess so because by that time in the
war, there were precious few German fighter aircraft flying in Italy.

So if that's what the instructions meant, how were the German ground
troops supposed to see the tail numbers? The P-80 pilots weren't
stupid enough to be stooging around low and slow in front of the
fierce AAA the Germans were always extremely willing to put up, were
they? I'd assume they would be flying combat patrols, which would be
conducted above 10,000 feet. That's a little high to be reading tail
numbers.

If the instructions were intended for German aircraft encountered in
the air, then I really don't see how this would work. The P-80 pilots
would literally have to fly formation with the Germans in order for
them to see and read the tail numbers. Actually the P-80's would have
to be slightly ahead. Doesn't sound like a healthy place to be.

So I guess I'm saying this whole scenario sounds like a tall tale.

Corky Scott