Looking for Ridge Lift/Turbulence Diagram

I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

in article , DrJack at
wrote on 2003/11/10 13:33:

I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

http://www.flymorningside.com/wave.htm


Jack

The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE that
is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The wave
sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted in
the wave.htm link.
The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the National
Weather Service in Hanford, CA). he may be able to
e-mail it.
Tim



"Jack" wrote in message
...
in article , DrJack at
wrote on 2003/11/10 13:33:

I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

http://www.flymorningside.com/wave.htm


Jack

Tim Shea wrote:
The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE that
is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The wave
sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted in
the wave.htm link.
The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the National
Weather Service in Hanford, CA). ***DELETED*** he may be able to
e-mail it.
Tim

Tim,

The morningside diagram _is_ misleading - lift does occur upwind of the
ridge but it is normal "ridge" lift and disconnected from the wave flow.
I will contact Dan Gudgel since I know him, thanks for the lead. BTW
it's a bad idea to include an email address in a RAS posting unless it
is first altered or "munged" to prevent it's being harvested by spammers.

Jack

"Jack Glendening" wrote in message
ink.net...
Tim Shea wrote:
The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE
that
is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The
wave
sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted
in
the wave.htm link.
The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the
National
Weather Service in Hanford, CA). ***DELETED*** he may be able to
e-mail it.
Tim

Tim,

The morningside diagram _is_ misleading - lift does occur upwind of the
ridge but it is normal "ridge" lift and disconnected from the wave flow.
I will contact Dan Gudgel since I know him, thanks for the lead. BTW
it's a bad idea to include an email address in a RAS posting unless it
is first altered or "munged" to prevent it's being harvested by spammers.

Jack

Both the wave and ridge diagrams are poorly drawn conceptually, surely there
are better examples.

munging happens on the right side of the @ only

altering the left side may only create an alias

if you have an effective and powerful spam filter, neither matters, and once
_everyone_ has one, the spammers are dead. choose your ISP wisely

Frank Whiteley
posting in the clear from the same e-mail for 7 years;^), blackholing 10,000
spams/month at the user-configurable server pre-filter. FWIW, most ISPs are
seeing about 80% SPAM, in terms of volume, on mail servers.

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote:
...
if you have an effective and powerful spam filter, neither matters, and once
_everyone_ has one, the spammers are dead. choose your ISP wisely
...

There is no difference for the spammers if you receive the spam and don't
read it or if some filter avoid that you even see it. As almost everyone
who has no filter is in the first case, why should it change anything if
they go in the second case? As long as the spammers would believe that there
is a 1/1000000 chance that their spam is read, they will try to send 1000000000000
spam (approximatively :-), this is the basic principle of spam. The only
correct solution is that their providers block the spam at its source,
but all this waste of bandwith is source of income for the providers,
so there is little chance that they will do anything to cut it. And we all
pay for it.

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
blackholing 10,000 spams/month at the user-configurable server pre-filter

If you are getting and ignoring over 3000 emails per _day_ I can't see
that you can know that none of those are legitimate email. I don't know
of any perfect spam filter and the black hole lists are also not perfect
as there are documented cases of innocent IPs being "collateral damage"
of over-zealous listings.

You could try some of these. See if anything suits you.

http://sbsi.csumb.edu/sbsc256/sbscSt...r_3/3_1_6.html

Slide #16 at the following link is so-so
http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/atm10...TM1010_L15.pdf

There's a nice one in French here but I haven't figured out how to copy it
http://www.meteo.fr/meteonet_en/deco...nuages/nua.htm

Hope someone can do better!


Regards, and thanks for all that you do.


"DrJack" wrote in message
...
I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

I had best emphasize that here I am concerned with _ridge_ lift, which
occurs upwind of the ridge, not _wave_ flow - I want to contrast the two
cases and already have several diagrams depicting wave flow.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

Check out the animated graphics at
http://www.yorksoaring.com/whatissoaring.html. You may have to click along
several pages to get to the ridge lift page.

Charles Petersen, grateful user of Dr. Jack's Blip Maps

"DrJack" wrote in message
...
I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist