Mayday in Utah

At 14:56 12 June 2008, 5Z wrote:

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.

When I fly my ASH-26E, I'm always planning to land it somewhere
safely, but it's a welcome relief when the engine starts. It's just
plain stupid to not be preparing to land as one is starting the engine
- just in case.

So if you were flying a pure glider, and facing the prospect
of landing in a remote, but reasonably safe looking dry
lake, pasture, whatever, would you send out a Mayday
message before even landing?

Jim Beckman

May PAN PAN might be more appropriate. I believe MAYDAY is supposed to
be used when loss of property or life is imminent. Pan Pan is for
"urgent" situations. I realize it's a judgement call, but I'd use PAN
PAN if I was lost or something, and MAYDAY when a wing or tail feathers
departed the plane.

This is slightly OT, but... suppose that you are flying in a remote
area and see an accident, or what looks like a recent accident.
Landing is impossible or difficult. What radio call would you make?

Bartek

brtlmj wrote:

May PAN PAN might be more appropriate. I believe MAYDAY is supposed to
be used when loss of property or life is imminent. Pan Pan is for
"urgent" situations. I realize it's a judgement call, but I'd use PAN
PAN if I was lost or something, and MAYDAY when a wing or tail feathers
departed the plane.


This is slightly OT, but... suppose that you are flying in a remote
area and see an accident, or what looks like a recent accident.
Landing is impossible or difficult. What radio call would you make?

Bartek
I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known
position so they know which transmitter to reply with)" When they
returned my call, I'd tell them what I think I see below.

Scott

On Jun 12, 7:56*am, 5Z wrote:

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened...

I think we can be fairly sure he wasn't tightening the iris on his
camera after a console lockup.

I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground. When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story


At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground. When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story


At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground. When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story


At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground. When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story


At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground. When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story


At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

On Jun 12, 3:28*pm, Cliff Hilty wrote:
I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing?

I think those folks ought to expect to be billed for any SAR service
expense incurred on their behalf as a result of non-emergency
activation.

I have no problem donating time and resources to searching for
bretheren in actual peril, or even those who think they're in peril,
because I know that some day that might be me out there. However, I
think it'd be pretty seriously demotivating to get regularly called
out and then stood down because of an alert sent up by someone who
thought that there was the possibility that they might soon be in
peril, maybe. Demotivating events like that take their toll on SAR
groups, making it harder to attract and retain qualified and dedicated
volunteers.

Thanks, Bob K.