Mayday in Utah

On Jun 13, 11:28*am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 13:38 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:



I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer
it
the other way around.

I'm afraid I don't understand this. *Would the crash
have been any less severe if the pilot you scraped off
had called for help beforehand?

The point here seems to be that the pilot's call
for assistance wasn't based on the lack of a place
to land (obviously such a place was handy) but on
his lack of engine power. *Given the positive outcome
it's sort of funny, and it gives us purists a chance to
snicker at the powerglider brigade. *How much of our
snickering is rooted in envy is left as an exercise for
the student.

Jim Beckman

Obviously? We know next to nothing about what happened. You don't know
if the pilot had anywhere to land. He might have gotten very lucky and
found lift and got to somewhere else. Or he might have ended up in an
extremely bad landing situation and just gotten lucky, or, or, or...
Lets wait for actual information.

Darryl

On Jun 13, 2:15 pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jun 13, 11:28 am, Jim Beckman wrote:



At 13:38 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:

I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer
it
the other way around.

I'm afraid I don't understand this. Would the crash
have been any less severe if the pilot you scraped off
had called for help beforehand?

The point here seems to be that the pilot's call
for assistance wasn't based on the lack of a place
to land (obviously such a place was handy) but on
his lack of engine power. Given the positive outcome
it's sort of funny, and it gives us purists a chance to
snicker at the powerglider brigade. How much of our
snickering is rooted in envy is left as an exercise for
the student.

Jim Beckman

Obviously? We know next to nothing about what happened. You don't know
if the pilot had anywhere to land. He might have gotten very lucky and
found lift and got to somewhere else. Or he might have ended up in an
extremely bad landing situation and just gotten lucky, or, or, or...
Lets wait for actual information.

Darryl

There are some extremely nasty places to get stuck down low in Utah
(I've been in some of them) and a precautionary Mayday to alert others
doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It also seems standard to use Mayday
rather than Pan Pan. There may be many folks who wouldn't know what
it means, but Mayday is universally understood as a distress signal.

I know we're all tempted to beat up on the wussy motorglider pilots in
the belief that they deploy the engine as a crutch at the slightest
soaring difficulty, but in this case I think we should wait for the
full story. If you check OLC, they've been stacking up some
impressive flights in the past few days.

Mike

At 14:55 14 June 2008, Mike the Strike wrote:

There are some extremely nasty places to get stuck down low in Utah
(I've been in some of them) and a precautionary Mayday to alert others
doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It also seems standard to use Mayday
rather than Pan Pan.

I was sort of under the impression that the expected response
to a Mayday call is to start the wheels rolling immediately for
whatever rescue mission turns out to be appropriate. It
really seems like there should be some intermediate form
that acknowledges that while things could get messy, it
hasn't actually happened yet.

I know we're all tempted to beat up on the wussy motorglider pilots in
the belief that they deploy the engine as a crutch at the slightest
soaring difficulty, but in this case I think we should wait for the
full story. If you check OLC, they've been stacking up some
impressive flights in the past few days.

Well, the engine is, as they say, a real confidence builder.

Jim Beckman

Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne

JP - Now that we have been subjected to the customary RAS
Rampant Aviation Speculation
Can you tell us what actually transpired (why he called MayDay) ?
Thanks !
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" [/i][/color][/i][/color]


Gotta love speculation
Am I the only paranoid here?
This sounds like bunk to me.
Did anyone actually hear the mayday?
Does anyone actually know the pilot (its not like we dont know each other here)
Did anyone actually see/hear/hear of/know anything like this actually happen?

Let me put forward option #3

US military monitors these RAS threads, like everything else
The notice the gliding, RA & GA community are suspect of their trumped up model aircraft killing machines and think, duh, how can we get onside with this mob?
Duh, lets throw in a bull#*^t mayday JUST WHEN a global eyeball is testing and wallah! instant hero's
Next time they loose one of their toys or have a mid-air with one of us they can point out when they helped us out -presto- insant spin for the computer pilots and Joe public thinks WE did something wrong by being in THEIR airspace

or maybe I am paranoid and should trust the US military (Especially the air force)

On Jun 14, 5:08*pm, bagmaker
wrote:

or maybe I am paranoid and should trust the US military (Especially the
air force)

--
bagmaker

Uhh, yeah, you are paranoid!

First of all, the report is that Center reported a Mayday, and asked
for help from the Global Hawk team.

So maybe you should be more concerned about the FAA (I know I am!!).

Second, if your knowledge of the military comes from Hollywood or the
media - well, go ahead, enjoy your paranoia unencumbered with reality.

Kirk
66

Yep, paranoid!

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9903/04/ma...ict/index.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/03/06/pilot.crash/
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123010917
http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v... ughes+Airwest

some fun reading, Kirk, media can be a double edged sword. The military sharpen it well on both sides nowadays, do we all read both sides? Not from my understanding of citizens in the USA (and most of OZ, frankly)

BUT-

Steve has given details of his exciting day elsewhere regarding this incident and I applaud him for doing so.

I am thankful on his behalf for any assistance received from your authorities for Steve and the effort put in by them after the MAYDAY call.

I am ever hopeful that incidents like those including the links above and the ones that actually turn out well can be learned from for aviators throughout the whole world,


so, paranoid but respectfully thankful and slightly apologetic



safe flying, well done Steve

I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known
position so they know which transmitter to reply with)"
Errr, Flight Service (often on 122.2 - both transmit/receive)? Flight
Watch (122.0 - only, AFAIK) is for weather advisories.

Dang. Either way, I missed. My guess would be 121.5...

Bartek

On 12 Jun, 15:56, 5Z wrote:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are
NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong
later.

Ian

On 19 Jun., 10:33, Ian wrote:
On 12 Jun, 15:56, 5Z wrote:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. *Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. *The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are
NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong
later.

Ian

On the discussion Pan-Pan vs. Mayday:
As I learned it (and is content of German PPL exams), Mayday means
declaring an emergency for your OWN plane, whereas Pan-Pan means you
noticed an emergency on someone else.

An engine failure on your plane would in this sense be a Mayday, an
observed car crash or a broken glider on the ground would be a Pan-
Pan.

Somehow I get confused because Wikipedia states it different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday_(distress_signal)
They refer to the lower/higher order of the emergency situation.
Can anyone clarify that?

At 10:20 19 June 2008, Jonas Eberle wrote:
On 19 Jun., 10:33, Ian wrote:
On 12 Jun, 15:56, 5Z wrote:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. =A0Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of
these
landing options. =A0The engine fails to start, the location is
extremel=
y
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

That would be a gross misuse - an abuse - of the MAYDAY call. You are
NOT supposed to use it on the off chance that something might go wrong
later.

Ian

On the discussion Pan-Pan vs. Mayday:
As I learned it (and is content of German PPL exams), Mayday means
declaring an emergency for your OWN plane, whereas Pan-Pan means you
noticed an emergency on someone else.

An engine failure on your plane would in this sense be a Mayday, an
observed car crash or a broken glider on the ground would be a Pan-
Pan.

Somehow I get confused because Wikipedia states it different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday_(distress_signal)
They refer to the lower/higher order of the emergency situation.
Can anyone clarify that?

MAYDAY means emergency while PAN PAN means Possible Assistance Needed.

John.