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#241
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
Gary Evans wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/yedncvo This is a graphic by Monte Heib, who is called in the URL below "an amateur climatologist" though he is credible in mine engineering. Amusing that his graphic is "After Scotese" who is a paleo-geologist. "After..." That's a term used of works of art :-) http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/200...ologist-o.html Brian W |
#242
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On 8 Jan, 11:20, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 8, 7:59*am, delboy wrote: On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote: While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well. Mark Jardini I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European countries are also having a bad time. The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more temperate, south-west direction. Derek Copeland Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland |
#243
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contrails
On Dec 23 2009, 7:10 pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
... This is even before you get into the discovery that you can feed totally random data into Mann's program and it still produces a "hockey stick". I don't believe that, but: If the model is based on causality and not merely on correlation then the long term prediction should be independent of the past temperatures. -- FF |
#244
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 17, 5:37*am, delboy wrote:
On 8 Jan, 11:20, Tom Gardner wrote: On Jan 8, 7:59*am, delboy wrote: On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote: While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well. Mark Jardini I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European countries are also having a bad time. The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more temperate, south-west direction. Derek Copeland Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever. |
#245
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote:
After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? If you want to present AGW/Climate Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not correlate with the theory, so that is why. Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2 emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly object to! Derek Copeland |
#246
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
delboy wrote in
: On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote: After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? No, I'm not. I dislike other people putting silly opinions/statements into my "mouth". If you want to present AGW/Climate Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not correlate with the theory, so that is why. Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2 emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly object to! I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the causal connection between those beliefs and your comments that I object to. |
#247
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contrails
Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Dec 23 2009, 7:10 pm, Bruce Hoult wrote: ... This is even before you get into the discovery that you can feed totally random data into Mann's program and it still produces a "hockey stick". Bruce, the "hockey stick" is not dependent on Dr. Mann or his program (I'm not sure what program you are talking about, but it doesn't matter). Dr. Mann was the first develop it, but others have corroborated his work using different methods. A decent explanation: http://www.skepticalscience.com/broken-hockey-stick.htm If you want to delve into it more than that, search for "hockey stick" on the same site. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly |
#248
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On 18 Jan, 01:06, Tom wrote:
delboy wrote : On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote: After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? No, I'm not. I dislike other people putting silly opinions/statements into my "mouth". If you want to present AGW/Climate Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not correlate with the theory, so that is why. Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2 emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly object to! I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the causal connection between those beliefs and your comments that I object to.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Eric, Obviously you must have some professional connection to the AGW scam. Climate is surely just the long term average of weather events. Any increase in atmospheric CO2 does not appear to have caused the predicted increase in Global temperatures. Maybe the 'natural' concentration of CO2 already gives the maximum greenhouse effect and increasing it causes little or no difference. In any case CO2 is food for plants, so I would expect to see an increase in plant growth, as long as there are no other limiting factors. Derek Copeland |
#249
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On Jan 18, 7:44*am, delboy wrote:
On 18 Jan, 01:06, Tom wrote: delboy wrote : On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote: After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? No, I'm not. I dislike other people putting silly opinions/statements into my "mouth". If you want to present AGW/Climate Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not correlate with the theory, so that is why. Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2 emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly object to! I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the causal connection between those beliefs and your comments that I object to.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Eric, Obviously you must have some professional connection to the AGW scam. I think the same assertion could be made about you, but on the opposing side! |
#250
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Global Warming/Climate Change (was contrails)
On 18 Jan, 09:06, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 18, 7:44*am, delboy wrote: On 18 Jan, 01:06, Tom wrote: delboy wrote : On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote: After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working. So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the British Isles yet! Derek Copeland I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment, nor did I imply it. Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts (not knowing the difference between climate and weather) is offensive. *Please do not do it again*. Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent in the denialist community. Anybody reading your comments with an open mind would start to doubt your sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? No, I'm not. I dislike other people putting silly opinions/statements into my "mouth". If you want to present AGW/Climate Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not correlate with the theory, so that is why. Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2 emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly object to! I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the causal connection between those beliefs and your comments that I object to.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Eric, Obviously you must have some professional connection to the AGW scam. I think the same assertion could be made about you, but on the opposing side!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I am not a professional climatologist, so I have no financial interest in the topic of AGW, other than a desire not to be controlled and taxed by my Government on the basis of CO2 emissions. I am a trained and qualified scientist in a different field, so I am used to evaluating data. I think I can spot dodgy and biased data being used for political purposes when I see it. Derek Copeland |
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