FAI, soaring and Olympic Games

Why couldn't gliding have a grand prix style start where the start line
opens at a certain time and all speeds are calculated from that start time -
just like sail boar racing?

There is no reason why gliders or support aircraft could not transmit live
video.

Why are glider pilots so keen to list technical reasons why broadcasting our
sport might be difficult rather than looking for solutions?

Anyone who watched the sailng at the olympics would have seen that with
boats taking in different directions, it was just about anyones guess as to
who was leading whom untill they rounded their waypoints (markers). I don't
hear many sailors detailing why they sport is not suitable for broadcast.



"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but
nobody argues that it'd
rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring
community. Therefore my question is
following:

Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?

Because in sailing, you can "park" a bunch of boats, with the requisite
TV crews, along the couse line. People will be able to watch the event -
not so in soaring. Yes, I'm aware of the proposals to transmit GPS
coordinates of the competitors to be displayed in some fashion. It ain't
the same, IMHO.

For other would be Olympic events, see:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5746437

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING



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Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing the
PW5 WCG. When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?

Who defines the sport? The people in it or the Olympics folks? If it is in
our power let's make the change and have Olympic racers in sleek modern
ships.

I think the combination of tiny in-ship, wingtip or tail mounted camers
combined with helicopters outside the turnpoints and gps transmitters could
make for great TV.

Note: I was a co-owner of a PW5 for 3-4 years and now fly a 27 yr. old
Glasflugel design.


"Tony" wrote in message
...
Why couldn't gliding have a grand prix style start where the start line
opens at a certain time and all speeds are calculated from that start
time -
just like sail boar racing?

There is no reason why gliders or support aircraft could not transmit live
video.

Why are glider pilots so keen to list technical reasons why broadcasting
our
sport might be difficult rather than looking for solutions?

Anyone who watched the sailng at the olympics would have seen that with
boats taking in different directions, it was just about anyones guess as
to
who was leading whom untill they rounded their waypoints (markers). I
don't
hear many sailors detailing why they sport is not suitable for broadcast.



"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics,
but
nobody argues that it'd
rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring
community. Therefore my question is
following:

Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?

Because in sailing, you can "park" a bunch of boats, with the requisite
TV crews, along the couse line. People will be able to watch the event -
not so in soaring. Yes, I'm aware of the proposals to transmit GPS
coordinates of the competitors to be displayed in some fashion. It ain't
the same, IMHO.

For other would be Olympic events, see:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5746437

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING



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For Example John Smith wrote:

Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing the
PW5 WCG.

Maybe not - remember the concept started 20 years ago, when things
seemed different. I sort of recall gliders coming out then with
noticeable improvements, and I think there was a feeling among many that
we were on a treadmill of increasingly expensive gliders (but not better
contests) if we didn't do something. Judging the start of the WC by what
you see today will lead to a bad analysis.

When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?

As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that we
already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the Standard and
15 meter.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

PW5 wouldn't be the first product to miss its mark due to faulty assumptions
based on current trends.
Anybody want to buy any 4 year old .com business plans?

Brent

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
For Example John Smith wrote:

Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this
is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing
the
PW5 WCG.

Maybe not - remember the concept started 20 years ago, when things
seemed different. I sort of recall gliders coming out then with
noticeable improvements, and I think there was a feeling among many that
we were on a treadmill of increasingly expensive gliders (but not better
contests) if we didn't do something. Judging the start of the WC by what
you see today will lead to a bad analysis.

When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?

As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that we
already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the Standard and
15 meter.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Tony,

You've described what was once called the "shotgun" start, as
practiced at the 15M Nationals in Chester SC, 1988. All I can say is
Yikes!!! Scariest thing I've ever done in a sailplane. Sixty gliders
flying at 100+ knots at cloudbase in a confined area. Close second to
that was the implosion finish back in the days when you were penalized
for being overtime on a POST. Gliders arriving at the finish line from
all points on the compass at the same time. I understand the people on
the ground loved it! Glider demolition derby.

How did it work? Was there a single start line? How long was it?

I can see the danger in everyone trying to squeeze through a narrow gate at
the same time. Would a longer gate - say 10km perpendicular to the first TP
track help?





"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Tony,

You've described what was once called the "shotgun" start, as
practiced at the 15M Nationals in Chester SC, 1988. All I can say is
Yikes!!! Scariest thing I've ever done in a sailplane. Sixty gliders
flying at 100+ knots at cloudbase in a confined area. Close second to
that was the implosion finish back in the days when you were penalized
for being overtime on a POST. Gliders arriving at the finish line from
all points on the compass at the same time. I understand the people on
the ground loved it! Glider demolition derby.


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Pilots were required to take a picture of two trailers crossing the
"tee" at a given time. Sixty gliders all snapping a pic and rolling
out on course (a POST) to all points of the compass directly above the
airport.

A curved start line of 10k length is an interesting thought, but the
herd instinct prevails. Pilots will wait in the available lift, and a
large number will try to position themselves with certain contest IDs.
Pilot selected start times seem the best way to keep the density
lower, though never low.

"Tony" wrote in message ...
How did it work? Was there a single start line? How long was it?

I can see the danger in everyone trying to squeeze through a narrow gate at
the same time. Would a longer gate - say 10km perpendicular to the first TP
track help?





"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Tony,

You've described what was once called the "shotgun" start, as
practiced at the 15M Nationals in Chester SC, 1988. All I can say is
Yikes!!! Scariest thing I've ever done in a sailplane. Sixty gliders
flying at 100+ knots at cloudbase in a confined area. Close second to
that was the implosion finish back in the days when you were penalized
for being overtime on a POST. Gliders arriving at the finish line from
all points on the compass at the same time. I understand the people on
the ground loved it! Glider demolition derby.


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How was gliding presented in the 1936 Olympic games?

Perhaps that could be the marketing hook: make Hitler's dream a
reality! Make gliding an olympic sport!

On Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:05:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
How was gliding presented in the 1936 Olympic games?

Perhaps that could be the marketing hook: make Hitler's dream a
reality! Make gliding an olympic sport!

that's sick.

Olympics are athletic. Soaring has avoided (for the most part) having
medals or awards for endurance (long hours = crash).

I dunno, the sailing olympians all look like they're in great shape.
Pretty physical, that sport. And bosled even. I dunno if
soaring really meets the hardbody "Olympic" concept.

But hey, I guess there's no harm trying...I suppose an Olympic
"cluster ballooning" event would be nice too...

In article , iPilot wrote:
It's been under discussion for several times, but I want to bring it up again.

There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but nobody argues that it'd
rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring community. Therefore my question is
following:

Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?

None of the cities that have organised Olympic games in the past would have any geographic troubles
on organising soaring competitions (Moscow had troubles with organising sailing competition which
had to be held in Tallinn - 900 km away).
None of the latest summer games that I remember have had such miserable weather that the competition
would have to be left unheld.

The main argument against soaring is the fact that equipment can make a difference here. Well. Here
is the challenge for igc. They have to face that their first trial of monoclass failed and they have
to try again. This time with relatively high-performing, yet still not expencive standard or 15m
class design.

As a matter of fact I don't believe that sailing deserves to have 9 different classes on Olympics
and soaring none. I personally think that FAI has failed bigtime to find the concensus amongst all
air sports to get air sports represented on Olympic games. It shall be the biggest argument towards
Olympic Commety - there's no air sports in Olympics nowadays. And the most suitable sport would be
soaring because it's competitive, not so dependent on equipment and directly measurable. Making
soaring TV-friendly shall not be a problem as well today. And with racing tasks only allowed on
olympics it shall be understandable for general public as well.

How can we do it?

Regards,
Kaido




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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA