Piper 235 tail skin

wrote:
On Feb 26, 1:51 pm, Ross wrote:

As so often said here, pardon me, what is the reference for "not
permitted"? Is is a Piper document or what? I would like to make it
available to the owner.


I believe this is written in the Piper PA28 Service manual itself. I
have the Essco Aircraft reprints of these manuals at home and can
probably look up the exact section, page and paragraph later this
evening. I distinctly remember reading this info in the manual, as I
was looking to buy a Cherokee that has a skin patch on one of the flap
skins and wanted to be sure it was an approved repair.

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.

Ross

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:41:07 -0600, Ross wrote:

Jay and other owners of this aircraft. Any documentation on cracks
forming on the horizontal tail surfaces. The -235 I am helping on annual
had three additional cracks in the skin beyound the two that were
repaired by the previous owner. Got some old skin and made conforming
patches.

No Piper service releases on this problem?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Feb 26, 6:02 pm, Dave wrote:
RUH ..ROH...

Ross, something is very wrong here...

Here is the entry, sec 4-55 of my (PA28-151) manual...

IN BOLD ITALICS....

WARNING!

The use of patch plates for repairs of all moveable tail surfaces is
prohibited The use if any filler material normally used for the repair
of minor dents and/or materials used for filling the inside of
surfaces is also prohibited on all moveable tail surfaces.

I understand "stop drilling " is also prohibited...


That is the same exact thing that's in my service manual, which is
also the Cherokee Warrior PA-28-151 & -161 edition (part # 761 539),
and doesn't seem to cover the -235 models specifically.

I did find these interesting threads over on the piperowners.org
forum, which seems to suggest that the older straight-wing Cherokee
service manual did not have the prohibition against patching control
surfaces.
http://forums.piperowner.org/read/1/...7096#msg-37096

http://forums.piperowner.org/read/1/...4710#msg-84710

wrote:

I did find these interesting threads over on the piperowners.org
forum, which seems to suggest that the older straight-wing Cherokee
service manual did not have the prohibition against patching control
surfaces.

It might be the difference between an old manual and a current one. I have
an ancient copy of the PA28 service manual and it doesn't prohibit control
surface skin repairs. When a crack jumped the stop-drill hole on my rudder,
my IA declined to repair it (had to reskin). We compared service manuals and
my old one didn't have the prohibition, but his current one did. Word on a
Piper forum was that the prohibition was added to the PA28 manuals by Piper
in the 90s (which would explain why my old skin was stop drilled).

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:

wrote:

I did find these interesting threads over on the piperowners.org
forum, which seems to suggest that the older straight-wing Cherokee
service manual did not have the prohibition against patching control
surfaces.


It might be the difference between an old manual and a current one. I have
an ancient copy of the PA28 service manual and it doesn't prohibit control
surface skin repairs. When a crack jumped the stop-drill hole on my rudder,
my IA declined to repair it (had to reskin). We compared service manuals and
my old one didn't have the prohibition, but his current one did. Word on a
Piper forum was that the prohibition was added to the PA28 manuals by Piper
in the 90s (which would explain why my old skin was stop drilled).

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


That is my understanding as well. Additionally, you must use the latest
service manual, so repairs done now have to conform to the current
service manual, as I understand it. I don't believe you need to go back
and change old repairs if they were correct for the service manual
revision that was current when the repair was done.

wrote:
: Skin crack patches are not permitted on the stabilator or rudder or
: vertical stab of any PA28 models. You must re-skin to be legal.
: Fortunately PA28 tailfeather skins are readily available from Piper or
: authorized parts dealers and are not too awful expensive either. The
: labor to drill out all the old rivets and replace is the real PITA
: here.

: BTW, patches *are* permitted on PA28 flap skins, and believe it or
: not, also on aileron skins for older cherokees, but you must rebalance
: ailerons if you patch them. The PA28 service manual even has a section
: that tells you what thickness aluminum to use for those skin patches.

This is a point of confusion, IMO. As far as I can tell from my PA28 service manual, control
surface repairs are possible, since they have a description of how to do it. That includes how to check
the balance and state that they're often balanced at the forward end of the range to "allow for repairs."
The only "official" information I've heard that says repairs aren't permitted has been 3rd or 4th
generation word of mouth. I've also seen a number of PA28's *with* control surface repairs.

What gives?

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

: It might be the difference between an old manual and a current one. I have
: an ancient copy of the PA28 service manual and it doesn't prohibit control
: surface skin repairs. When a crack jumped the stop-drill hole on my rudder,
: my IA declined to repair it (had to reskin). We compared service manuals and
: my old one didn't have the prohibition, but his current one did. Word on a
: Piper forum was that the prohibition was added to the PA28 manuals by Piper
: in the 90s (which would explain why my old skin was stop drilled).

: John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

I can find no such prohibition in my service manual (P/N 753-586, Feb 27, 2004). It contains
information (skin thickness, checking balance, etc) on how to do it.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote

This is a point of confusion, IMO. As far as I can tell from my PA28
service manual, control
surface repairs are possible, since they have a description of how to do
it. That includes how to check
the balance and state that they're often balanced at the forward end of
the range to "allow for repairs."
The only "official" information I've heard that says repairs aren't
permitted has been 3rd or 4th
generation word of mouth. I've also seen a number of PA28's *with*
control surface repairs.

New thinking at Piper, as reflected in newer manuals, says to replace and
not patch the skins. I would think they have discovered important reasons
to make that change.

The biggest thing that would eat at me, is why the skin cracked, and what is
going on inside there that you can not see without taking the skin off.
Something caused it to crack, and I would not fly comfortable, without
knowing what that was.

If you find peace of mind with patches, more power to you. Keep on keeping
on, then. :-)
--
Jim in NC

wrote:

I can find no such prohibition in my service manual (P/N 753-586, Feb 27, 2004). It contains
information (skin thickness, checking balance, etc) on how to do it.


That's strange. When my IA showed me his current manual (on CD), it had
the prohibition. As I recall, it was worded the same as described in Dave's
post above.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200803/1

New thinking at Piper, as reflected in newer manuals, says to replace and
not patch the skins. I would think they have discovered important reasons
to make that change.

Yeah, they discovered that they could charge $1600 for a $12 piece of
pressed aluminum.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"