PowerFLARM at Uvalde

For those who want more direct information:

60 units have shipped so far for the Uvalde contestants and the rental
program with more on the way. The decision to equip the Uvalde
contestants and the rental program first was not a dealer decision, so
don't hold it against them.

After the Uvalde orders have been filled, PowerFlarm is expecting to
ship 5-8 units per week to each dealer starting on Aug 15th. So for
the rest of us, it's just a matter of weeks, not months. Although I
guess it depends on the length of your dealer's list and where you
reside on it.



Personally, I'm ok with Uvalde getting the first bunch. I've waited
this long, what's a few more weeks. Although if I hear of a midair
with two pilots on PowerFlarm waiting lists, I reserve the right to
change my mind.

On Jul 26, 4:19*pm, RWW wrote:
"Paul Remde" wrote:
"RWW" wrote in message
...

I understand, I just disagree. For the record, it's not the gliders I worry
about; it's the very frequent airliners that fly over our glider port at
3-5K AGL.
--

What you would rather some Uvalde contest pilot not get a PowerFLARM?
That seems fairly selfish.

And just to be clear the only airline-threat data that you will
reliably receive with the current PowerFLARM firmware is Mode-S PCAS
traffic today from those airliners--and that is color coded on the
screen, no audible alerts. And since its PCAS you have altitude but no
direction information. And becuase its PCAS its very questionable at
faster jet closing speeds how useful the data really is - much more
useful for GA traffic as a heads up somebody is around.

PowerFLARM as it is currently shipping is clearly focused on
delivering glider-glider collision avoidance, all the other good stuff
is coming. Its been a public/painful delivery cycle for Flarm but I'm
glad that Flarm and its partners are prioritizing getting the glider-
glider stuff in the market asap vs. having us wait longer.

I am very happy to see the PowerFLARM in the USA market and believe
that prioritizing Uvalde contestants is a good idea. It would be idea
to have everybody have a chance to be more familiar but I suspect this
is the best approach given where we are. I expect the contest
organizers and Flarm representatives to make sure that contestants are
well briefed and on the technology. Some of the contest pilots who
have competed or just flown overseas will have some experience with
Flarm and I am sure those at Uvalde will help out others.

The best technology tool by far with airline threats is to install and
use a transponder, and where possible also talk to ATC. ADS-B 1090ES
receiver capability in future PowerFLARM firmware updates will be
useful as well. But a transponder in your glider is the a much better
idea. And the only technology compatible with the airliner's TCAS
systems. If you are really worried about airliners over all else I
hope you already have a transponder.... or cancel your PowerFLARM
order and get a Trig TT21.

Darryl

On Jul 26, 4:19*pm, RWW wrote:
"Paul Remde" wrote:
"RWW" wrote in message
...
"Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Brad,

My policy has always been to ship items in the order in which orders were
received. *However, in this case, we will soon have 50 to 60 competitors
flying in a soaring contest at the same site that had a fatal mid-air
last season. *Therefore, FLARM-USA has asked us to ship units to Uvalde
competitors first. *I can't speak for the other PowerFLARM dealers, but
it is my intention to follow the recommendation of FLARM-USA. *I agree
that the upcoming contest has a higher mid-air risk than will be found
anywhere else in the USA next week, and I sincerely believe that
PowerFLARM will help reduce the risk.

I can understand that it would be frustrating for those that ordered
early, because you want the enhanced safety for yourself ASAP also.

After the Uvalde competitors' orders are filled I will ship to other
customers in the order that orders were received.

We should be receiving the units pretty quickly over only a few weeks..
We will get your unit to you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

So, I can be bumped down the queue for the portable flarm I ordered last
year by someone who ordered a brick, and only decided today that they want
a loaner portable unit?

I guess the competition guys really are more important than those of us who
don't fly competition.

Hi,

Of course no pilot is more important than any other pilot - at least not
in my book. *But how many gliders are flying in your area at a time? *Do
you have 40 to 60 gliders in a small area as they will at Uvalde next
week? *If not, then I hope you will understand why we are putting a high
priority on the Uvalde pilots. *Also, the decision was based on the fact
that a glider pilot died in a mid-air collision at Uvalde only last year.

Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 26, 4:19 pm, RWW wrote:
"Paul Remde" wrote:
"RWW" wrote in message
...
"Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Brad,

My policy has always been to ship items in the order in which orders were
received. However, in this case, we will soon have 50 to 60 competitors
flying in a soaring contest at the same site that had a fatal mid-air
last season. Therefore, FLARM-USA has asked us to ship units to Uvalde
competitors first. I can't speak for the other PowerFLARM dealers, but
it is my intention to follow the recommendation of FLARM-USA. I agree
that the upcoming contest has a higher mid-air risk than will be found
anywhere else in the USA next week, and I sincerely believe that
PowerFLARM will help reduce the risk.

I can understand that it would be frustrating for those that ordered
early, because you want the enhanced safety for yourself ASAP also.

After the Uvalde competitors' orders are filled I will ship to other
customers in the order that orders were received.

We should be receiving the units pretty quickly over only a few weeks.
We will get your unit to you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

So, I can be bumped down the queue for the portable flarm I ordered last
year by someone who ordered a brick, and only decided today that they want
a loaner portable unit?

I guess the competition guys really are more important than those of us who
don't fly competition.

Hi,

Of course no pilot is more important than any other pilot - at least not
in my book. But how many gliders are flying in your area at a time? Do
you have 40 to 60 gliders in a small area as they will at Uvalde next
week? If not, then I hope you will understand why we are putting a high
priority on the Uvalde pilots. Also, the decision was based on the fact
that a glider pilot died in a mid-air collision at Uvalde only last year.
I hope that the PowerFLARM units will help avoid a recurrence of that tragedy.

Besides, I'm told that the Portable units will be shipped at a good rate
(many units shipping every week), so that everyone will get their
PowerFLARM unit very soon anyway.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

I understand, I just disagree. For the record, it's not the gliders I worry
about; it's the very frequent airliners that fly over our glider port at
3-5K AGL.
--

I do not understand this apparently selfish attitude. Glider contests
are an area where Flarm can significantly help improve glider-glider
traffic awareness and collision avoidance and I am happy to see
contestants at Uvalde prioritized over other purchasers (including
me). We do not need another mid-air, with or without a fatality, at a
contest. The current state of play of the PowerFLARM firmware makes it
a more compelling glider/FLARM to glider/FLARM collision avoidance
tool, future updates will expand that.

Uvalde is also a good trial run at a contest this year before the
season ends and a chance for many USA contest pilots to experience
Flarm in a reasonable size contest to help guide usage and any rules
changes for next year. Its also good for organizers there to see Flarm
in action as soon as possible before the World contest where
PowerFLARM availability/demonstrated operation in a contest is likely
of a lot of interest for many overseas pilots.

While it would have been nicer for all the pilots to have been able
gain experience with PowerFLARM beforehand there are pilots at the
contest who have flow with Flarm technology overseas and who I am sure
will help others with it, and I expect the contest organizers and
Flarm to do some hand holding.

If your concerns are airliners then PowerFLARM with the current
firmware and state of 1090ES carriage in the USA may not provide as
much information as some expect. Not all airliners in the USA are
1090ES data-out equipped (check with you local ATC or airliner ops
folks on what 1090ES data-out carriage is with local airliners). If
they are 1090ES data-out equipped the current PowerFLARM firmware will
display that traffic but will not issue audible alerts, if the
airliners are not 1090ES data-out equipped the only indication on the
PowerFLARM will be Mode-S based PCAS (all the airliners have Mode-S
transponders) but PCAS gives no direction information, and with
current firmware no audible warning and the relatively short range of
PCAS warnings and lack of direction information may not be sufficient
to be useful in an encounter with airliners or other fast aircraft.

If you are really worried about airliners I would hope you already
have a transponder, and where possible talk to ATC. Transponders are
the only technology compatible with the TCAS system that all
(reasonable size) airliners are require to carry. If airliners are
really a strong concern and you don't have a transponder already maybe
you should consider cancelling the PowerFLARM order and instead
getting a Trig TT21.

Darryl

Thanks for your thoughts. I value your opinion, but do not share it.

On Jul 27, 6:01*am, RWW wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 26, 4:19 pm, RWW wrote:
"Paul Remde" wrote:
"RWW" wrote in message
...
"Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Brad,

My policy has always been to ship items in the order in which orders were
received. *However, in this case, we will soon have 50 to 60 competitors
flying in a soaring contest at the same site that had a fatal mid-air
last season. *Therefore, FLARM-USA has asked us to ship units to Uvalde
competitors first. *I can't speak for the other PowerFLARM dealers, but
it is my intention to follow the recommendation of FLARM-USA. *I agree
that the upcoming contest has a higher mid-air risk than will be found
anywhere else in the USA next week, and I sincerely believe that
PowerFLARM will help reduce the risk.

I can understand that it would be frustrating for those that ordered
early, because you want the enhanced safety for yourself ASAP also.

After the Uvalde competitors' orders are filled I will ship to other
customers in the order that orders were received.

We should be receiving the units pretty quickly over only a few weeks.
We will get your unit to you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

So, I can be bumped down the queue for the portable flarm I ordered last
year by someone who ordered a brick, and only decided today that they want
a loaner portable unit?

I guess the competition guys really are more important than those of us who
don't fly competition.

Hi,

Of course no pilot is more important than any other pilot - at least not
in my book. *But how many gliders are flying in your area at a time? *Do
you have 40 to 60 gliders in a small area as they will at Uvalde next
week? *If not, then I hope you will understand why we are putting a high
priority on the Uvalde pilots. *Also, the decision was based on the fact
that a glider pilot died in a mid-air collision at Uvalde only last year.
*I hope that the PowerFLARM units will help avoid a recurrence of that tragedy.

Besides, I'm told that the Portable units will be shipped at a good rate
(many units shipping every week), so that everyone will get their
PowerFLARM unit very soon anyway.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

I understand, I just disagree. For the record, it's not the gliders I worry
about; it's the very frequent airliners that fly over our glider port at
3-5K AGL.
--

I do not understand this apparently selfish attitude. Glider contests
are an area where Flarm can significantly help improve glider-glider
traffic awareness and collision avoidance and I am happy to see
contestants at Uvalde prioritized over other purchasers (including
me). We do not need another mid-air, with or without a fatality, at a
contest. The current state of play of the PowerFLARM firmware makes it
a more compelling glider/FLARM to glider/FLARM collision avoidance
tool, future updates will expand that.

Uvalde is also a good trial run at a contest this year before the
season ends and a chance for many USA contest pilots to experience
Flarm in a reasonable size contest to help guide usage and any rules
changes for next year. Its also good for organizers there to see Flarm
in action as soon as possible before the World contest where
PowerFLARM availability/demonstrated operation in a contest is likely
of a lot of interest for many overseas pilots.

While it would have been nicer for all the pilots to have been able
gain experience with PowerFLARM beforehand there are pilots at the
contest who have flow with Flarm technology overseas and who I am sure
will help others with it, and I expect the contest organizers and
Flarm to do some hand holding.

If your concerns are airliners then PowerFLARM with the current
firmware and state of 1090ES carriage in the USA may not provide as
much information as some expect. Not all airliners in the USA are
1090ES data-out equipped (check with you local ATC or airliner ops
folks on what 1090ES data-out carriage is with local airliners). If
they are 1090ES data-out equipped the current PowerFLARM firmware will
display that traffic but will not issue audible alerts, if the
airliners are not 1090ES data-out equipped the only indication on the
PowerFLARM will be Mode-S based PCAS (all the airliners have Mode-S
transponders) but PCAS gives no direction information, and with
current firmware no audible warning and the relatively short range of
PCAS warnings and lack of direction information may not be sufficient
to be useful in an encounter with airliners or other fast aircraft.

If you are really worried about airliners I would hope you already
have a transponder, and where possible talk to ATC. Transponders are
the only technology compatible with the TCAS system that all
(reasonable size) airliners are require to carry. If airliners are
really a strong concern and you don't have a transponder already maybe
you should consider cancelling the PowerFLARM order and instead
getting a Trig TT21.

Darryl

Thanks for your thoughts. I value your opinion, but do not share it.

There was a lot there not to agree with, what in particular don't you
agree with?

That you attitude is selfish? (a likely short delay to you of a device
not fully feature equipped for the usage scenario you are most worried
about for important benefit to contest pilots and the wider contest
community?).
That we don't need another mid-air/fatality at a contest?
That FLARM should not have prioritized units for Uvalde? (OK we know
you disagree on that)
That getting Uvalde organizers and others early experience with
PowerFLARM is important for the world contest?
That getting USA contest pilots exposure is important before next year
for input for rule changes?
There is something wrong with how I describe current PowerFLARM
firmware features? Especially lack of PCAS and 1090ES audible alarms
(coming in a future firmware update)?
You disagree on current USA airliner 1090ES data-out carriage? - or do
you know if the airline traffic you are worried about have significant
1090ES data-out carriage?(its great to know if they do - can you share
which airlines/aircraft and their equipage levels?)
You think PCAS' short range and lack of direction information does not
makes it of limited use for airliner/fast traffic collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are important tools for airline
collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are the only technology that works/
interoperates with airline TCAS systems?
You disagree that if airliners are a serious/dominant concern you
should prioritize getting a transponder? (if I had airliners very
frequently fly over my glider port at 3-5k I would have installed a
transponder a long tine ago--have you?),


Darryl

Darryl Ramm wrote:
There was a lot there not to agree with, what in particular don't you
agree with?

He tried to close the dialog more diplomatically than I would, yet you
insist on repeating yourself.

That you attitude is selfish? (a likely short delay to you of a device
not fully feature equipped for the usage scenario you are most worried
about for important benefit to contest pilots and the wider contest
community?).

Fascinating. You appear to be blind to the selfishness of those contestants
who had ample time to pre-order the same units ahead of poster RWW, but did
not. Is there some reason you are unable to see the selfishness in _their_
actions?

That we don't need another mid-air/fatality at a contest?

Why are their necks more precious than his? Participating in a contest is a
voluntary decision and contestants are expected to prepare accordingly and
expect the associated risks. It is clear from the product diversion that
many did _not_ prepare by ordering promptly, so those who took the biggest
risk in pre-ordering earliest (but are not entered in this contest) are now
being penalized to favor those who couldn't be bothered. That's a
favoritism that is neither fair nor moral nor wise.

That FLARM should not have prioritized units for Uvalde? (OK we know
you disagree on that)

Those who choose to engage in riskier activities but not make prompt
advance preparation to mitigate that risk should not be rewarded at the
expense of those who enage in less risky activities yet still make such
prompt advance preparations.

Your position is actually immoral, not that of the other poster.

That getting Uvalde organizers and others early experience with
PowerFLARM is important for the world contest?

You'd better stop posting; as a neutral observer the above comes across as
unfettered arrogance.

That getting USA contest pilots exposure is important before next year
for input for rule changes?

Sigh. More arrogance. Maybe you should just tell any glider pilot who is
not entering contests to go to hell cause they're ruining the sport for all
the high-risk takers?

There is something wrong with how I describe current PowerFLARM
firmware features? Especially lack of PCAS and 1090ES audible alarms
(coming in a future firmware update)?

At this point he probably rightly concludes that as a non-contestant any
such upgrade is going first to you-know-who so why bother?

You disagree on current USA airliner 1090ES data-out carriage? - or do
you know if the airline traffic you are worried about have significant
1090ES data-out carriage?(its great to know if they do - can you share
which airlines/aircraft and their equipage levels?)
You think PCAS' short range and lack of direction information does not
makes it of limited use for airliner/fast traffic collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are important tools for airline
collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are the only technology that works/
interoperates with airline TCAS systems?
You disagree that if airliners are a serious/dominant concern you
should prioritize getting a transponder? (if I had airliners very
frequently fly over my glider port at 3-5k I would have installed a
transponder a long tine ago--have you?),

I didn't see anything in his response implying anything that deserved such
a rant built up of rhetorical questions. Suppose he had said he was worried
about other gliders in his area - wouldn't your attempts to belittle him
using technicalities all come to all halt?

On Jul 27, 9:16*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 27, 6:01*am, RWW wrote:





Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 26, 4:19 pm, RWW wrote:
"Paul Remde" wrote:
"RWW" wrote in message
...
"Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Brad,

My policy has always been to ship items in the order in which orders were
received. *However, in this case, we will soon have 50 to 60 competitors
flying in a soaring contest at the same site that had a fatal mid-air
last season. *Therefore, FLARM-USA has asked us to ship units to Uvalde
competitors first. *I can't speak for the other PowerFLARM dealers, but
it is my intention to follow the recommendation of FLARM-USA. *I agree
that the upcoming contest has a higher mid-air risk than will be found
anywhere else in the USA next week, and I sincerely believe that
PowerFLARM will help reduce the risk.

I can understand that it would be frustrating for those that ordered
early, because you want the enhanced safety for yourself ASAP also.

After the Uvalde competitors' orders are filled I will ship to other
customers in the order that orders were received.

We should be receiving the units pretty quickly over only a few weeks.
We will get your unit to you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

So, I can be bumped down the queue for the portable flarm I ordered last
year by someone who ordered a brick, and only decided today that they want
a loaner portable unit?

I guess the competition guys really are more important than those of us who
don't fly competition.

Hi,

Of course no pilot is more important than any other pilot - at least not
in my book. *But how many gliders are flying in your area at a time? *Do
you have 40 to 60 gliders in a small area as they will at Uvalde next
week? *If not, then I hope you will understand why we are putting a high
priority on the Uvalde pilots. *Also, the decision was based on the fact
that a glider pilot died in a mid-air collision at Uvalde only last year.
*I hope that the PowerFLARM units will help avoid a recurrence of that tragedy.

Besides, I'm told that the Portable units will be shipped at a good rate
(many units shipping every week), so that everyone will get their
PowerFLARM unit very soon anyway.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

I understand, I just disagree. For the record, it's not the gliders I worry
about; it's the very frequent airliners that fly over our glider port at
3-5K AGL.
--

I do not understand this apparently selfish attitude. Glider contests
are an area where Flarm can significantly help improve glider-glider
traffic awareness and collision avoidance and I am happy to see
contestants at Uvalde prioritized over other purchasers (including
me). We do not need another mid-air, with or without a fatality, at a
contest. The current state of play of the PowerFLARM firmware makes it
a more compelling glider/FLARM to glider/FLARM collision avoidance
tool, future updates will expand that.

Uvalde is also a good trial run at a contest this year before the
season ends and a chance for many USA contest pilots to experience
Flarm in a reasonable size contest to help guide usage and any rules
changes for next year. Its also good for organizers there to see Flarm
in action as soon as possible before the World contest where
PowerFLARM availability/demonstrated operation in a contest is likely
of a lot of interest for many overseas pilots.

While it would have been nicer for all the pilots to have been able
gain experience with PowerFLARM beforehand there are pilots at the
contest who have flow with Flarm technology overseas and who I am sure
will help others with it, and I expect the contest organizers and
Flarm to do some hand holding.

If your concerns are airliners then PowerFLARM with the current
firmware and state of 1090ES carriage in the USA may not provide as
much information as some expect. Not all airliners in the USA are
1090ES data-out equipped (check with you local ATC or airliner ops
folks on what 1090ES data-out carriage is with local airliners). If
they are 1090ES data-out equipped the current PowerFLARM firmware will
display that traffic but will not issue audible alerts, if the
airliners are not 1090ES data-out equipped the only indication on the
PowerFLARM will be Mode-S based PCAS (all the airliners have Mode-S
transponders) but PCAS gives no direction information, and with
current firmware no audible warning and the relatively short range of
PCAS warnings and lack of direction information may not be sufficient
to be useful in an encounter with airliners or other fast aircraft.

If you are really worried about airliners I would hope you already
have a transponder, and where possible talk to ATC. Transponders are
the only technology compatible with the TCAS system that all
(reasonable size) airliners are require to carry. If airliners are
really a strong concern and you don't have a transponder already maybe
you should consider cancelling the PowerFLARM order and instead
getting a Trig TT21.

Darryl

Thanks for your thoughts. I value your opinion, but do not share it.

There was a lot there not to agree with, what in particular don't you
agree with?

That you attitude is selfish? (a likely short delay to you of a device
not fully feature equipped for the usage scenario you are most worried
about for important benefit to contest pilots and the wider contest
community?).
That we don't need another mid-air/fatality at a contest?
That FLARM should not have prioritized units for Uvalde? (OK we know
you disagree on that)
That getting Uvalde organizers and others early experience with
PowerFLARM is important for the world contest?
That getting USA contest pilots exposure is important before next year
for input for rule changes?
There is something wrong with how I describe current PowerFLARM
firmware features? Especially lack of PCAS and 1090ES audible alarms
(coming in a future firmware update)?
You disagree on current USA airliner 1090ES data-out carriage? - or do
you know if the airline traffic you are worried about have significant
1090ES data-out carriage?(its great to know if they do - can you share
which airlines/aircraft and their equipage levels?)
You think PCAS' short range and lack of direction information does not
makes it of limited use for airliner/fast traffic collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are important tools for airline
collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are the only technology that works/
interoperates with airline TCAS systems?
You disagree that if airliners are a serious/dominant concern you
should prioritize getting a transponder? (if I had airliners very
frequently fly over my glider port at 3-5k I would have installed a
transponder a long tine ago--have you?),

Darryl


Good points Darryl. I am very happy to have the manufacturer send the
first units to Uvalde instead of me. Large contests are the highest
value scenario for PowerFlarm and the extra couple of weeks will allow
me to finally get a transponder installed (yes Darryl I placed the
order).

For those who are disappointed not to get your unit right now keep in
mind that the "first come, first served" arrangement is with the
dealer. The manufacturer can allocate production however they like -
that's how it works every day in the real world.

On a related note, on Sunday I wrote a check to Rex at Williams
Soaring for my contribution to the rental program. It's pretty clear
from my understanding of the order numbers that US contest pilots are
not 100% covered so if you made a commitment to that program last year
I strongly encourage you to follow through. As much as I enjoy
unexpectedly running into old soaring friends I really don't want to
do it while flying my glider.

9B

On 7/27/11 5:56 PM, Jim Logajan wrote:
Darryl wrote:
[snip]

You disagree on current USA airliner 1090ES data-out carriage? - or do
you know if the airline traffic you are worried about have significant
1090ES data-out carriage?(its great to know if they do - can you share
which airlines/aircraft and their equipage levels?)
You think PCAS' short range and lack of direction information does not
makes it of limited use for airliner/fast traffic collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are important tools for airline
collision avoidance?
You disagree that transponders are the only technology that works/
interoperates with airline TCAS systems?
You disagree that if airliners are a serious/dominant concern you
should prioritize getting a transponder? (if I had airliners very
frequently fly over my glider port at 3-5k I would have installed a
transponder a long tine ago--have you?),

I didn't see anything in his response implying anything that deserved such
a rant built up of rhetorical questions. Suppose he had said he was worried
about other gliders in his area - wouldn't your attempts to belittle him
using technicalities all come to all halt?

No, not at all. But if he was worried about gliders in his area I would
have pointed out the limitations in that scenario - e.g. unless the
other gliders are carrying PowerFLARM he would have very limited or no
warning of them (especially there is no Mode-C PCAS support yet and no
audible alerts for any PCAS or ADS-B targets, and effectively no gliders
in the USA are 1090ES data-out equipped today).

What I did do was deliberately highlight the conflict between wanting a
PowerFLARM now for a particular use for which the PowerFLARM as
currently shipping does not really address well, prioritized over
contestants in a large contest, where the PowerFLARM as currently
shipping should be well suited.

The "technicalities" were not mentioned to belittle anybody, they are
absolutely core here as to why the whole argument why Uvlade contets
pilots should not be prioritized just made *no* sense to me, and why I
reacted so strongly. A large part of my reaction is my head spinning
about what I expect is a misunderstanding of current PowerFLARM firmware
features and the situation with airliner traffic. And FLARM/Urs has
posted this firmware information recently right here on r.a.s.
Unfortunately with all this collison avoidcance technology, the
technical details are important. If you don't think so please try
reading my many posts here on r.a.s. where I try to explain how
technologies like transponders, ADS-B and FLARM work and what they will
and won't get you. I really hope none of these technologies are though
of as magic boxes that just work (although flarm-flarm gets closest to
that for the glider on glider or glider on tow plane scenario). And my
advice to considering getting a transponder if concerned with airliner
traffic (instead of the PowerFLARM if both cannot be purchased) is an
absolutely serious suggestion that can significantly decrease risk of a
collision.

Prioritizing contestants at Uvlade is not needed just because pilots
there may not have ordered their PowerFLARM products, many did - early
on. It would be very unfortunate if some contest pilots there would miss
their order delivery because somebody else is a few places ahead of them
in the queue - this went through multiple dealers and given how it was
done I don't think anybody could ever unwind exactly who ordered what
when. And I think it is important the pilots at Uvlade who ordered early
and who have been active supporters of PowerFLARM etc. have the benefit
of as many other gliders in that contest fleet being PowerFLARM equipped.

I am not a contest pilot, but I've looked at too many mid-air accidents,
and lost a friend to a (non-contest) mid-air and I really want to see
this technology used now where it can provide the best safety
improvements to as many of our fellow glider pilots as possible. And
again, given expected shipping rates the inconvenience to the rest of us
should be pretty small.

Darryl

On Jul 27, 8:56*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote:
There was a lot there not to agree with, what in particular don't you
agree with?

He tried to close the dialog more diplomatically than I would, yet you
insist on repeating yourself.

Fascinating. I don't have a position on the whole FLARM question but
it's entertaining to follow along.

If you haven't ordered a PowerFLARM (which, I seem to recall, its
supporters insisted we mandate for U.S. contests this year because
they were certain they'd be available), you simply must. ASAP. Not to
is to be negligent regarding your life as well as others'. Unless you
aren't flying at Uvalde. Then let those guys have the gadgets first.
You should be willing to incur more risk for the sake of the common
good. Don't be so selfish. Personally, I try to avoid implying that
any one person's life is more or less important than any other life
(or lives), or that incurring a risk for a few weeks is OK compared to
being protected forever. At least to that person's face, figuratively
speaking. But maybe I simply don't have the same absolute conviction.

But wait, you aren't really increasing your risk by foregoing your new
PowerFLARM. It won't help you that much now anyway unless you're
flying with a bunch of FLARM-equipped gliders, right? And if YOU don't
have one, they don't either. It's only as good as PCAS. But...wasn't
that the most recent if-you-don't-buy-it-you're-negligent, must-have
gadget? Or was that a transponder? Doesn't matter, you should have
installed them both years ago. Shame on you. For penance, order two
PowerFLARMS now, take delivery when the promised new firmware is
released, and lend the other one to a contest pilot whose budget can't
quite accommodate another few thousand dollars of mandatory equipment
on top of everything else he's invested.

Oh, and install that transponder anyway. PowerFLARM isn't perfect,
it's just better. And if your panel won't accommodate all the added
"better but not best" hardware introduced every few years, order a new
glider while you're at it. We know you're rich, else you wouldn't be
flying sailplanes.

I'm reminded of the handwringing years ago over pilots flying heads
down and locked on their new GPS receivers, moving maps, flight
computers, etc. If it's a new gadget for SAFETY, though, not to worry.
Just switch it on and forget it. We know you'll have the mental
discipline not to be distracted while flying in a gaggle or at 110
kts. under a Uvalde cloud street.

By the way, the easiest way to avoid collisions at Uvalde is to set
courses that don't involve gliders converging head on from nearly
opposite directions. Relying on technology (e.g., PowerFLARM) to
shield us from risks like that is akin to driving around with an
unfastened seatbelt because the vehicle is equipped with airbags. I
don't think I've ever flown in an emptier sky.

In engineering school, we learned an expression: "First you draw the
curve, then you plot the points." To religion and politics, I would
add technology as an area of life where the true believers are
sometimes so zealous and certain that they lose the ability to reason
with perspective. iPhone vs. Android, anyone?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

On 7/31/2011 8:46 AM, Chip Bearden wrote:
Personally, I try to avoid implying that
any one person's life is more or less important than any other life
(or lives), or that incurring a risk for a few weeks is OK compared to
being protected forever. At least to that person's face, figuratively
speaking. But maybe I simply don't have the same absolute conviction.

I don't recall anyone suggesting pilot A's life was worth more than
pilot B's, but only that 1) the Uvalde contest pilot's life was at much
greater risk for that 2 or 3 week period than most other pilots, even if
their FLARM was delayed for months), and 2) pilot A would get a much
larger benefit from FLARM because most of the other pilots near him
would also have FLARM, unlike pilot B.

It's only as good as PCAS. But...wasn't
that the most recent if-you-don't-buy-it-you're-negligent, must-have
gadget? Or was that a transponder? Doesn't matter, you should have
installed them both years ago. Shame on you.

And same for this: I do not think most people recommending PCAS or
transponders did it with religious fervor, but used a balanced,
risk-based approach to it, along the lines of "if you are being
surprised by transponder equipped aircraft, get one of each".


In engineering school, we learned an expression: "First you draw the
curve, then you plot the points." To religion and politics, I would
add technology as an area of life where the true believers are
sometimes so zealous and certain that they lose the ability to reason
with perspective. iPhone vs. Android, anyone?

FLARM is NOT new technology (nor are transponders), and we have years of
experience to base our opinions on.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)