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#11
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
wrote in message ... A simple reality check is to simply pull back the throttle close to idle passing the numbers downwind when you're number one to land and getting used to the sight picture that'll get you to the runway. Where I fly (KLNA) that is too often simply impossible. When you have multiple planes in the pattern, the pattern tends to get bigger...much bigger. I often fly at odd hours just so that I can practice things like you suggest, but it is a skill that may do me little good if I am routinely forced to turn final more than a mile from the airport. I was first a glider pilot. One of the first things we learn/teach in gliders is that you never want to get caught simultaneously low and downwind of the field. When I started taking airplane lessons, I was amazed to find that everyone was routinely flying patterns that were beyond gliding range of the airport. I am not just talking about the turn from base to final, I mean the much of the downwind leg and the entire base leg! Vaughn |
#12
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
On Jul 15, 12:48*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote: wrote in message ... A simple reality check is to simply pull back the throttle close to idle passing the numbers downwind when you're number one to land and getting used to the sight picture that'll get you to the runway. * *Where I fly (KLNA) that is too often simply impossible. *When you have multiple planes in the pattern, the pattern tends to get bigger...much bigger. I often fly at odd hours just so that I can practice things like you suggest, but it is a skill that may do me little good if I am routinely forced to turn final more than a mile from the airport. * *I was first a glider pilot. *One of the first things we learn/teach in gliders is that you never want to get caught simultaneously low and downwind of the field. *When I started taking airplane lessons, I was amazed to find that everyone was routinely flying patterns that were beyond gliding range of the airport. *I am not just talking about the turn from base to final, I mean the much of the downwind leg and the entire base leg! Vaughn We are told, Vaughn, that engine failures sometimes happen when power is first reduced after take off. I don't know what the statistics are, but think failures in the downwind/base/final portions of flight are not very common. My own SEL experience and practice would put me at serious risk if they were common, I'd make the field only if the failure happened inbound of the middle marker a lot of times. I need power to stay on the glide slope. That 'chop the power and make the field" probably has more to do with learning how to figure out what you can glide to if you have a power failure sometime. It might be worth doing something like that when you're near a not-so-busy field, just to make sure the sight picture you think you know works is valid and if you still remember how to manage the energy your airplane has left. I'm reminding myself I have not done that sort of thing in too long a time. |
#13
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
On Jul 15, 12:09 pm, wrote:
We are told, Vaughn, that engine failures sometimes happen when power is first reduced after take off. I don't know what the statistics are, but think failures in the downwind/base/final portions of flight are not very common. Failures at power reduction are no more common than any other sort, except perhaps in ultralights with their two-strokes that tend to seize up if they're not fully warmed up before takeoff, and they'll sometimes stop when power is reduced but they were going to quit soon anyway. Failures can happen anywhere. I've had an engine fail in the glide and another busted its crankshaft on climbout. Most common failures, by a wide margin, are attributed to carb ice, and it will get you anywhere at all if you're not educated enough to be aware of (A) what causes it, (B) when the risk is highest, (C) and what is sounds like. Every so often I hear of another airplane that had its engine quit, the conditions were perfect for carb ice, and the engine ran fine for the accident investigators. Carb ice could cause engine failure on power reduction, as the ice will be closing off the carb throat and the closing throttle valve will finish it. Maybe that's where the OWT comes from? Next most common cause is fuel starvation, more commonly called running out of gas or, sometimes, mismanaging tanks. Water in the fuel is third, then practice forced landings (when the thing iced up or got cold enough it didn't wake up for the overshoot), and the fifth is oil starvation. Not very common, that one. Catastrophic mechanical failure is rare (like the broken crank) and is usually found in airplanes that are poorly maintained or maybe abused. Dan |
#14
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... A simple reality check is to simply pull back the throttle close to idle passing the numbers downwind when you're number one to land and getting used to the sight picture that'll get you to the runway. Where I fly (KLNA) that is too often simply impossible. When you have multiple planes in the pattern, the pattern tends to get bigger...much bigger. I often fly at odd hours just so that I can practice things like you suggest, but it is a skill that may do me little good if I am routinely forced to turn final more than a mile from the airport. When the circuit is full of students making xc circuits and dragging in long finals, We all (should) know that it is improper to cut in front of another aircraft in the circuit and also that controllers will seldom direct one aircraft to turn inside of another in the circuit, however...... The code words for requesting this action are to 'request a simulated engine failure exercise' when making your downwind call abeam of the runway. The controllers are well aware of what you are trying to do and will often accommodate this if they are able and have confidence in your ability to execute. If they are unable they will just decline your request and you are free to make it again on your next circuit. A little planning and situational awareness on your part can place you in the correct position to allow the controller to approve your request. The alternative is to land for 1/2 hr to get out of sequence with the flight schools and to make your circuits while they are between air time. Happy landings, I was first a glider pilot. One of the first things we learn/teach in gliders is that you never want to get caught simultaneously low and downwind of the field. When I started taking airplane lessons, I was amazed to find that everyone was routinely flying patterns that were beyond gliding range of the airport. I am not just talking about the turn from base to final, I mean the much of the downwind leg and the entire base leg! Vaughn |
#15
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
snip
* *Where I fly (KLNA) that is too often simply impossible. *When you have multiple planes in the pattern, the pattern tends to get bigger...much bigger. I often fly at odd hours just so that I can practice things like you suggest, but it is a skill that may do me little good if I am routinely forced to turn final more than a mile from the airport. * *I was first a glider pilot. *One of the first things we learn/teach in gliders is that you never want to get caught simultaneously low and downwind of the field. *When I started taking airplane lessons, I was amazed to find that everyone was routinely flying patterns that were beyond gliding range of the airport. *I am not just talking about the turn from base to final, I mean the much of the downwind leg and the entire base leg! Vaughn True due to traffic you may have to fly beyond gliding distance of the airport. The mistake I typically see when this happens is that the pilot will start descending abeam the numbers. . Then they end up at 500 feet and a mile from the airport. I teach to stay at pattern altitude until you are in a position to make a normal descent to the runway. At least this way if you have a power failure you have a 1000 feet to work with, Which is the altitude we usually where we practice power failures from. Brian CFIIG/ASEL |
#16
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
I think the basic Idea behind you question is in #1 is should you
retract the flaps to try to extend your glide. The answer is it depends mostly on how high you are. Below about 400 feet don't mess with them. You will not gain enough to be significant and you should be concentraiting on flying the airplane. Above 400 feet retracting them can have some benefit, The higher you are the more it will help. As I recall in the 172 going from 30 to 20 would give a signficant drag reduction. From 20 to 10 does not do much and from 10 to 0 does even less. Best answer is find a willing flight instructor and go out and try it. I do scenerio's like these all the time with students and on flight reviews. For Senerio #2, If landing ahead is no longer an option then get the airplane configured as close to the Vx configuration and speed as possible. I don't recall what flap setting this is for the R model 172 as I recall some 172's recommend 10 degrees of flaps and other say that the 10 degrees doesn't help over an obstacle. I would be inclined not to mess with them as long as they were 10 degrees or less. Brian CFIIG/ASEL |
#17
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Use of FLaps in emergency situations
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