A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Power Commercial to Glider Commercial



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 13th 05, 04:32 PM
Mitty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Power Commercial to Glider Commercial

I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never been in a
glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning experience even though
I'll never fly one for hire.

So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2

"20 flights in a glider as PIC" and "5 solo flights"

But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not rated
in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right?

(The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only 5 solo
flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider rating and then
took dual for the Commercial. Right?)

TIA
  #2  
Old March 13th 05, 05:12 PM
soarski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Guess you did not read the whole story......
it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention
OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor.....

Which I would say should be INCLUDING, since in good
Soaring conditions the 3 hrs could be done in one flight.
On the other hand, a good instructor would not let you solo until you
learnt good aproaches and landings, not to mention aero tow practice,
which might take up all of the 3 hrs.

Among other items, the 5 solo flights are for demonstrating, that you
actually learnt how to SOAR, meaning that you can stay up for a while!
Which was not required before....years back. Then you might be ready
for your 20 flights, which could be done in the pattern.(short) which
I would not recomend.

This is how I interpret 61.129 f

AND This would be for an applicant who is testpilot material.
You know yourself that different people have different talents and
learning curves.

  #3  
Old March 13th 05, 05:25 PM
Mitty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On 3/13/05 10:12 AM, soarski wrote the following:
Guess you did not read the whole story......
it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention
OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor.....

That's not the part that is unclear. That's why I didn't mention it. The
question is whether I need 20 solo flights in order to have 20 flights as PIC.
Which it appears that I do.
  #4  
Old March 13th 05, 05:41 PM
soarski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good boy........Or Girl?

Before you can be a PIC, you have to learn how to fly the aircraft.
You know how to fly an airplane, but not the aircraft that is called a
glider..........It is a different animal! Take your first lesson!

  #5  
Old March 13th 05, 05:55 PM
BTIZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As I see it, and I'm not the final authority.. only a CFIG with a few other
power ratings thrown in:

(2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at
least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least-

(i) 3 hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a
glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in
§61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider
with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within
the 60-day period preceding the date of the test; and

(ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in
§61.127(b)(6) of this part.

Moving from Commercial Power to Commercial Glider, you need 200hrs power AND
20 flights as Glider PIC. You are correct, you cannot log PIC while taking
dual instruction. IF you had a private glider rating, then you could log PIC
and DUAL received at the same time. If you have prior Pvt Glider experience,
the 20 PIC flight would not be an issue.

So, once you have solo'd, you need 20 PIC (solo) flights, and 5 of those
should be logged as preparation IAW 61.127(b)(6).

Also, 3 of 10 of your instruction flights have to be within the last 60 days
prior to check ride and logged as prep flights.

I've found by experience, that depending on the past experience of the
candidate, that at least 20 dual flights are need in a Grob 103 just to
complete the required training events and get the landing "down pat" to solo
standards. Pilots that have only flown jets have the hardest time. Propeller
pilots with tail wheel time have the easiest transition.

BT

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never been
in a glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning experience
even though I'll never fly one for hire.

So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2

"20 flights in a glider as PIC" and "5 solo flights"

But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not
rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right?

(The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only 5
solo flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider rating
and then took dual for the Commercial. Right?)

TIA



  #6  
Old March 13th 05, 06:31 PM
Nyal Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I do have a question:
Why, if you have never been in a glider and plan never
to rent one, do you want to start off by planning to
add a commercial rating right off the bat?

I encourage you to get the private pilot glider rating
and get some experience before adding the glider commercial.
Don't go for bragging rights with absolutely no depth;

you won't impress anyone except those not worthy of
the effort.


At 16:00 13 March 2005, Mitty wrote:
I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this
summer. Never been in a
glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning
experience even though
I'll never fly one for hire.

So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2

'20 flights in a glider as PIC' and '5 solo flights'

But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction
since I'm not rated
in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo
flights. Right?

(The only way I could see someone having 20 flights
as PIC and but only 5 solo
flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private
glider rating and then
took dual for the Commercial. Right?)

TIA




  #7  
Old March 13th 05, 06:31 PM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mitty" wrote in message
news


On 3/13/05 10:12 AM, soarski wrote the following:
Guess you did not read the whole story......
it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention
OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor.....

That's not the part that is unclear. That's why I didn't mention it. The
question is whether I need 20 solo flights in order to have 20 flights as

PIC.
Which it appears that I do.


As an instructor at a commercial glider operation, I think that you, like
most powered aircraft transition pilots, may be underestimating how
difficult this transition is. Today's SEL training programs place little
emphasis on basic airmanship, concentrating instead on things like
instrument flying and radio procedures. While difficult, a glider
transition is a tremendous amount of fun and it WILL make you a better
pilot.

Flying a glider requires a very high level of pure "stick and rudder"
airmanship. I bet the first time you take the controls of a glider you are
going to feel like a pre-solo student. The coordination standards are so
tight that a slip or skid that wouldn't even register on a ball will put our
yaw strings 30 degrees out of line - I want it dead center. That's only one
thing of many that soarski is referring to.

Go start your lessons. You'll be amazed at what you learn.

Bill Daniels


  #8  
Old March 13th 05, 08:07 PM
Mitty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


On 3/13/05 10:55 AM, BTIZ wrote the following:

Moving from Commercial Power to Commercial Glider, you need 200hrs power AND
20 flights as Glider PIC. You are correct, you cannot log PIC while taking
dual instruction. IF you had a private glider rating, then you could log PIC
and DUAL received at the same time. If you have prior Pvt Glider experience,
the 20 PIC flight would not be an issue.

So, once you have solo'd, you need 20 PIC (solo) flights, and 5 of those
should be logged as preparation IAW 61.127(b)(6).

OK, that's what I thought. It must be very unusual for someone to have the 20
PIC flights with a much smaller number of solos.


I've found by experience, that depending on the past experience of the
candidate, that at least 20 dual flights are need in a Grob 103 just to
complete the required training events and get the landing "down pat" to solo
standards. Pilots that have only flown jets have the hardest time. Propeller
pilots with tail wheel time have the easiest transition.

Piper driver here. & I'm not planning to set any speed records on the training.
Whatever it takes, it takes.

Thanks for the confirmation on my FAR-ology.
  #9  
Old March 14th 05, 03:12 AM
Terry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Mitty wrote:
But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since

I'm not rated
in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right?

================================================== ==============================

That's right and the fixed part of the training. As mentioned by
others, the variable is the time to solo.

At the commercial operation where I teach/check, we have many visitors
that complete their training in a few days. A few solo in a handful of
flights, but the average will be in the 15-20 range assuming the use of
the Schweizer 2-33. The Grob 103 will take longer since its
characteristics are less forgiving.

Working hard and with cooperative weather, you have a good chance to
finish the rating in 5 days. Four for training and a checkride on the
fifth. This assumes that you solo early on the second day, complete
the solos on the third or early on the fourth, with the balance of the
fourth day in checkride prep.

If you are a competent stick and rudder pilot and not a slave to GeePS
wizz stuff, this is a very realistic shedule. You need to ensure that
there are gliders, tows, instructors, and finally an examiner available
to complete within your schedule.

Good luck with your plan.

Terry Claussen
Estrella

  #10  
Old March 14th 05, 03:20 AM
BTIZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
I don't want to be a killjoy, but I do have a question:
Why, if you have never been in a glider and plan never
to rent one, do you want to start off by planning to
add a commercial rating right off the bat?


A glider add on rating counts as a BFR.. is your going to do it, and already
hold a commercial rating.. the difference between the Commercial and Pvt on
the check ride is the prep time.. the PTS is practically identical...

Why not add a rating for a BFR... Seaplane? Glider?

BT


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seniors Contest Bob Fidler Soaring 68 March 17th 05 04:50 AM
eScrew zen story [email protected] Owning 0 December 20th 04 08:19 AM
Winch Experts wanted Ulrich Neumann Soaring 117 April 5th 04 06:52 AM
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons Curtl33 General Aviation 7 January 10th 04 12:35 AM
Seeking Partners for Minden Based Glider Don Johnson Soaring 0 August 31st 03 07:20 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.