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#71
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Important message for SSA members
Oops. ...learning by example...
Leaning by example is usually caused by too many beers after flying, or when checking a new EGT with an instructor... At 00:42 08 September 2006, Bob C wrote: Sorry Bill. Reading about contest flying is about as exciting as watching paint dry. I will admit that the OLC has opened up some avenues for leaning by example, though. At 23:06 07 September 2006, Bill Daniels wrote: '5-BG' wrote in message ... Joe in Georgia wrote 'I doubt pursuits like Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps, conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them, and that is our bread and butter.' That MAY BE BREAD AND BUTTER to the contest pilot set, but it is of absolutly no interest to a significant number of recreational pilots who soar just to be flying and who have no interest whatsoever in contests,badges etc. A great deal of SSA resources are spent each month on a glossy magazine which is devoted in large part ( altho I do acknowledge the recent attempts to broaden its scope) to contests and to the 'elite ' of the sport. I wonder just how many of the 16,000 members actually care about the contest circuit. It is my opinion that the focus on contests as a measure of whether or not someone is having fun has not only lef to a split in the ranks of the SSA, but has also had a very bad impact on the business of building gliders suitable for the general flying population. I saw this same thing 30 years ago in ocean sailboat racing. The concept of daysailing, cruising and just having a good time was replaced by an emphasis on competition. From the individual yatch club level to the world cup. Boats got much faster AND way more expensive. They became more fragile and were outdated after a couple of seasons. I believe that the glorification of competition is OK and that it satisfies the ego needs of a significant portion of the pilots who own sailplanes. HOWEVER to say that it is the bread and butter of the SSA is just plain wrong. we wonder why kids are not coming into a sport that takes a $100,000 hot rod to be competitive. The attitude that if you don't have the latest glass ship that dominated the nationals last month you are somhow a lesser pilot is fostered by this bread and butter attitude. What ever happened to just jumping in a sailplane and losing oneself in the sky for several hours of solitude? Whatever happened to the concept of just trying to improve or develop skills just for personal satisfaction? These concepts are the bread and butter of soaring. Not only have the finances of SSA been mismanaged, but i believe that the society has become irrevelant to a significant portion of its recreational for fun pilots. 5bg This is bulls**t - give it a rest. I've heard it since I started flying gliders in 1960. It seems to come from people who don't care to make an effort to be good enough pilots to compete and whose egos can't stand hearing about those who can and do. All good pilots want to get better and reading about the accomplishments or others is an excellent incentive. It's like saying that kids who play ball don't care about the World Cup. Or the readers of Road & Track don't care about auto racing's Grand Prix Circuits. Most people who fly gliders want to read about competition whether it be just badges or the new Grand Prix Racing curcuit. This is one of the things the SSA has always done right. Bill Daniels |
#72
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Important message for SSA members
All that is needed is for anyone to take down any 5 issues of Soaring and take notes---How much space is devoted to competition, how much to the adventure of soaring, how much to congratulate first solos, how much to safety, etc etc etc.
The SSA is our National Aero Club --representative to the FAI at this time. It is the repository of Badges and Records data. If you are a "We don't need no steenking badges" type--all well and good, there's still plenty in "Soaring" for you. If you do want a yardstick to measure your improvement, competition is there. An old saying from the days when MG and Jaguar dominated sports car racing was "Racing improves the breed". This is true for gliders too.. As to price---well, if you adjust the 1970 prices for inflation, todays prices ain't so bad after all. Furthermore the venerable 201B Libelle is still competitive in Sports Class and so is the Ka-6. So there is a "trickle down" that those who fly on more limited budgets can benefit from. Same is true of instruments. Today you can hardly give a S-Nav away. Before they came out, a hotshot pilot would have given his left testicle to get the very first one. It is still a very capable computer. As to being outdated--that happens less now than in the '70s. The ASW27 and V2 are early 90s designs. Same for the Nimbus 4 and the Discus 2 The techniques of soaring have changed considerably since 1965, mainly due to competitiion. Your "just jumping in the plane and flying a few hours while improving performance" is a direct beneficiary of these changes. So there are functions the SSA does for us that we need to have done. Not that the SSA is the only way, but if not SSA, then who has the knowlege and experience and interest in doing this? AOPA--not likely. EAA, maybe, but don't count on it -- Hartley Falbaum DG800B 15/18m "KF" USA "5-BG" 5-bghatesspam @ fake.com wrote in message ... Joe in Georgia wrote "I doubt pursuits like Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps, conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them, and that is our bread and butter." That MAY BE BREAD AND BUTTER to the contest pilot set, but it is of absolutly no interest to a significant number of recreational pilots who soar just to be flying and who have no interest whatsoever in contests,badges etc. A great deal of SSA resources are spent each month on a glossy magazine which is devoted in large part ( altho I do acknowledge the recent attempts to broaden its scope) to contests and to the "elite " of the sport. I wonder just how many of the 16,000 members actually care about the contest circuit. It is my opinion that the focus on contests as a measure of whether or not someone is having fun has not only lef to a split in the ranks of the SSA, but has also had a very bad impact on the business of building gliders suitable for the general flying population. I saw this same thing 30 years ago in ocean sailboat racing. The concept of daysailing, cruising and just having a good time was replaced by an emphasis on competition. From the individual yatch club level to the world cup. Boats got much faster AND way more expensive. They became more fragile and were outdated after a couple of seasons. I believe that the glorification of competition is OK and that it satisfies the ego needs of a significant portion of the pilots who own sailplanes. HOWEVER to say that it is the bread and butter of the SSA is just plain wrong. we wonder why kids are not coming into a sport that takes a $100,000 hot rod to be competitive. The attitude that if you don't have the latest glass ship that dominated the nationals last month you are somhow a lesser pilot is fostered by this bread and butter attitude. What ever happened to just jumping in a sailplane and losing oneself in the sky for several hours of solitude? Whatever happened to the concept of just trying to improve or develop skills just for personal satisfaction? These concepts are the bread and butter of soaring. Not only have the finances of SSA been mismanaged, but i believe that the society has become irrevelant to a significant portion of its recreational for fun pilots. 5bg wrote in message ups.com... Well, We have to consider really what SSA does for us- everyone mentions the big stuff like plane insurance and lobbying, and the clout of AOPA or EAA would be good there. I just think that these organizations already have their own inertia to deal with. I doubt pursuits like Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps, conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them, and that is our bread and butter. |
#73
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Important message for SSA members
No, you are the one who don't get it. How does one pilot flying in a
contest, or doing a badge or whatever, prevent another pilot from getting his kicks twirlybirding around the sky? The ATTITUDE divide that supposedly interferes with your enjoyment of the sport exists in YOUR head, not mine or anyone elses. YOU are the one who looks at a magazine article about Striedeck or Ittner or whoever and imagines that they and all their friends are looking down upon you. 5-BG wrote: fadoodle you wrote "You've hit the nail on the head here. I think this is the true source of all the whining you hear about the two or three pages of Soaring typically devoted to contest related news YOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the "2 pages" , which are actually quite a bit more than 2 pages.. but about the ATTITUDE that divides the membership. To the extent that everything is about performance and winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old and WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck Yeager on TV the other night flying a glider... with a safety pilot no less.. are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger because he was just having fun in the air.. with CHOKE.. a safety pilot along for the ride.. No I would have given a bunch to be that other pilot and to simply have had the privlege of flying just for fun with gen Yeager. There are many "for fun" pilots who have very expansive "ego walls" filled with decorations and rememberances of past exploits that make a soaring badge or second place finish at the nationals seem almost laughable. These pilots have left behind, long ago, the need for constant ego stroking. Perhaps the current situation will provide an excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core values and thrust of its operations. wrote in message oups.com... Bill Daniels wrote: "It seems to come from people who don't care to make an effort to be good enough pilots to compete and whose egos can't stand hearing about those who can and do. " You've hit the nail on the head here. I think this is the true source of all the whining you hear about the two or three pages of Soaring typically devoted to contest related news. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Google-AttachSize: 2909 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#ffffff DIVFONT face=Arialfadoodle/FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial/FONT /DIV DIVFONT face=Arialyou wrote "/FONTFONT face="Times New Roman"You've hit the nail on the head here. I think this is the true sourceBRof all the whining you hear about the two or three pages of SoaringBRtypically devoted to contest related news/FONT/DIV DIV /DIV DIVFONT face=ArialYOU DON'T GET IT EITHER!!!.. its not about the "2 pages" , which are actually quite a bit more than 2 pages.. but about the ATTITUDE that divides the membership. To the extent that everything is about performance and winning, the sport is leaving behind many, old and WOULD BE pilots. I saw Chuck Yeager on TV the other night flying a glider... with a safety pilot no less.. are you seriously suggesting that his ego is in danger because he was just having fun in the air.. with CHOKE.. a safety pilot along for the ride.. No I would have given a bunch to be that other pilot and to simply have had the privlege of flying just for fun with gen Yeager. /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial There are many "for fun" pilots who have very expansive "ego walls" filled with decorations and rememberances of past exploits that make a soaring badge or second place finish at the nationals seem almost laughable. These pilots have left behind, long ago, the need for constant ego stroking. /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial Perhaps the current situation will provide an excuse for the ssa to reevaluate its core values and thrust of its operations. /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial /FONT/DIV BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" DIV<A m/A> wrote in message A oglegroups.com"news:1157673698.112904.130680@m73g 2000cwd.googlegroups.com/A.../DIVBRBill Daniels wrote:BRBR "It seems to come from people who don't care to make anBR effort to be good enough pilots to compete and whose egos can't standBR hearing about those who can and do. "BRBRYou've hit the nail on the head here. I think this is the true sourceBRof all the whining you hear about the two or three pages of SoaringBRtypically devoted to contest related news.BR/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C6D28A.556AF2F0-- |
#75
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Important message for SSA members
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#76
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Important message for SSA members
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#77
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Important message for SSA members
Interestingly,
I find myself firmly in your camp only in that I am a recreational pilot- I own a 1971 Open Cirrus with a really horrible handicap. I do some sports class racing but really only as an opportunity to learn more about XC, which it has been instrumental at. It is fine you have no interest in what for now I call the bread and butter- badges, contests, etc- but why berate those with an interest in it? Soaring Magazine, while modest, is our only venue to read about what is possible in our sport. Honestly, could you read a magazine devoted to 3 hour local flights? The badges and records, while obviously a measure against your peers, are also really a baseline for you to set your own goals. Mine is an out and return 500k. That is how I want to do my diamond distance. In fact, I was delighted to read about some of my local peers adventure in Marfa several months ago. A recreational trip, one I happened to do with them the following year. (Go to Marfa, it rocks) But really, you only demean my point which was really to say that SSA does stuff for us that AOPA and EAA can't. Can you at least admit that those B & B items are important functions for a large part of our membership? And if not for that bread and butter, what exactly does the SSA do for you and if nothing, why are you a member? Lighten up. The reason we don't have modest performance new gliders at a medium price is because building a plane is expensive, no matter what, so not much is being built at all. There is lots of decent glass out there to be had at a reasonable price, but it is old glass. It is the glass that was once at the leading edge- We all benefit from the quick advances in technology and the need by many to stay current. Keep an eye on what our peers are doing at the leading edge of our sport- it is inspirational and keeps people motivated. It is great that people are competing at the top levels of our sport. And guess what, to compete in anything at the top levels is expensive. Try to get into road racing, or Formula one? If you think about it, that is really what our national competitions are about- racing best against the best, and you are are exactly right it is expensive. Being the best usually is- in money, time, etc. Some have it, some don't. Oh well. I have my Cirrus. Likely in no other sport can recreational pilots get as close to the "elite" as in our soaring community. Some of the US team are local to our area, and they have been nothing but an inspiration. If there is a divide, it is fabricated, and intolerance like yours is part of the problem. I more often see it from the bitter bottom looking up, than the top looking down. Joe in Georgia Open Cirrus #105 5-BG wrote: Joe in Georgia wrote "I doubt pursuits like Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps, conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them, and that is our bread and butter." That MAY BE BREAD AND BUTTER to the contest pilot set, but it is of absolutly no interest to a significant number of recreational pilots who soar just to be flying and who have no interest whatsoever in contests,badges etc. A great deal of SSA resources are spent each month on a glossy magazine which is devoted in large part ( altho I do acknowledge the recent attempts to broaden its scope) to contests and to the "elite " of the sport. I wonder just how many of the 16,000 members actually care about the contest circuit. It is my opinion that the focus on contests as a measure of whether or not someone is having fun has not only lef to a split in the ranks of the SSA, but has also had a very bad impact on the business of building gliders suitable for the general flying population. I saw this same thing 30 years ago in ocean sailboat racing. The concept of daysailing, cruising and just having a good time was replaced by an emphasis on competition. From the individual yatch club level to the world cup. Boats got much faster AND way more expensive. They became more fragile and were outdated after a couple of seasons. I believe that the glorification of competition is OK and that it satisfies the ego needs of a significant portion of the pilots who own sailplanes. HOWEVER to say that it is the bread and butter of the SSA is just plain wrong. we wonder why kids are not coming into a sport that takes a $100,000 hot rod to be competitive. The attitude that if you don't have the latest glass ship that dominated the nationals last month you are somhow a lesser pilot is fostered by this bread and butter attitude. What ever happened to just jumping in a sailplane and losing oneself in the sky for several hours of solitude? Whatever happened to the concept of just trying to improve or develop skills just for personal satisfaction? These concepts are the bread and butter of soaring. Not only have the finances of SSA been mismanaged, but i believe that the society has become irrevelant to a significant portion of its recreational for fun pilots. 5bg wrote in message ups.com... Well, We have to consider really what SSA does for us- everyone mentions the big stuff like plane insurance and lobbying, and the clout of AOPA or EAA would be good there. I just think that these organizations already have their own inertia to deal with. I doubt pursuits like Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps, conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them, and that is our bread and butter. I have been thru some corporate mergers and the sum is rarely as effective as the parts were beforehand. Technically, it seems marrying these groups would create something better- unfortunately, we are dealing with folks that can't even get our books straight. Could we trust them to keep SSA's identity and unique needs seperate and healthy? I doubt it. We already have an organization that does this other stuff fairly well. We need to change the organization to make it more accountable and less incestuous. Smaller can be better, it just has to be done right. There is enough in SSA to save, and we don't have to do it all tomorrow. Just curious- How long have our dues been 55 clams? Might be time for Mo' Money anyway. For some reason we expect to get out of a money jam without raising taxes. Sometimes ya gotta do it. Joe in Georgia USA CN Open Cirrus #105 |
#78
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Important message for SSA members
Brian Glick wrote:
Anyone that would be stupid enough to post this message on rec.aviation should be blackballed and thrown out of SSA as an abuser of his membership privilidges. Mr. Zawodny, you sir, are a jerk! Takes one to know one Brian.Do you not think that a potential SSA member on rec soaring has the right to know what would happen with his dues $$$$.This is the beauty of the internet.The only thing Mr. Z did was post it first.If anything your anger should be directed at the SSA management. Al |
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