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#141
June 16th 04, 07:34 AM
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... English is your second language, isn't it. Poor Den, still making stuff up. I think everbody who can read government statement can understant its meaning easily,illiterates different story of course. Yes, but you keep pretending that you can read them. 
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#142
June 16th 04, 07:34 AM
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#143
June 16th 04, 07:52 AM
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... You say the US knew and where when the attack was due, all they needed to do was prep the a/c the night before and launch 30 mins before the attack, plus wake the sailors up early and have them man the AA guns. First of all FDR or US did not want to deter japanase or save US ships in Harbor,what FDR wanted was a spectacular event to schock and awe the Nation. No, you just believe that. do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. A spectacular event that would shock the nation = a surprise attack - it never had to succeed. The first warning of Pearl Harbor attack did not came before hours,days or weeks before the attack,it came almost one year before attack. 1)On January 27,1941 US Ambassador to Japan ,Joseph Grew sent following message to Washington: "Peruvian minister has informed one my staff that he has heard from many sources,including a Japanase source,that in the event of trouble breaking out between US and Japan,the Japanase intended to make a surprise attack aganist Pearl Harbor with all their strength" So the US govt should believe the utterances of EVERY single foreign diplomat in the world? And act on them? should the US have gone to war on 2nd hand information from a PERUVIAN minister? Again the date of above message is Jan,27,1941. As above. 2)Later Congressman M.Dies wrote the following: "Early in 1941 the Dies committee came into possesion of a strategic map which gave clear proof of intentions of the japanese to make an assault on Pearl Harbor.The strategic map was prepared by the Japanase Imperial Intelligence dept. As soon as I received rhe document I telephoned Secretary of State Cordell Hull and told him what I had.Secretary Hull directed me not to let anyone know about map and stated that he would call me as soon as he talked to President Roosevelt.In about an hour he telephoned to say that he had talked to Roosevelt and they agreed that it would be very serious if any information concerning this map reached the news services.I told him it was a grave responsibility to withold such vital information from the public.TheSecretary assured me the he and Roosevelt considered essential to national defense" and M Dies agenda was? 3)Dusko Popov was a British double agent. In the summer of 1941 Nazis ordered him to Hawai to make a detailed study of PH naval base and its nearby airfields. He deduced that his mission betokened a surprise attack by japanase.In Aug.1941 he reported this to FBI in New York. Later Hoover bitterly recalled that he had provided Popovs warning abour Pearl Harbor to FDR but that Roosevelt told him not to pass the information any further and to just leave in in his ,Presidents,hands" He may well have deduced that, but since the Germans didn't know about any attack on Pearl Harbour until after the event and the Brits were reading German codes, it seems likely that it was ignored as trivial. 4)Kilso Haan received definite information from Korean underground that the Japanese were planning to attack Hawai "before Christmas".Haan contacted Iowa Senator Gillette and convinced him that information had merit. Sen.Gillette briefed FDR , but FDR said only"it would be looked into" You don't think that the "Korean underground" had reasons to be making stuff up that might draw the USA into a war with the Japanese? 5)The Dutch Army in Java on Dec.4 decoded a dispatch from Tokyo to Japan Embassy in Bangkok, forecasting attack on four locations including Hawai.The Dutch passed information to US Brig.Gen Thorpe.Thorpe sent total 4 urgent warning messages to Washington,to last one directly to the desk of Marshalls intel chief.Washington in return ordered Thorpe not send warning messages anymore. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. Col.Weiijerman,Dutch military attache in Washington,also delivered warning message to Marshalls staff in person. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. 6)On Nov,29 Cordell Hull met with the journalist J.Leib and handed him some japanese intercepts about Pearl Harbor and told him that Japanase were planning the base and that FDR planned to let it happen. Leib promised to keep Hulls name out of story and contacted UP Washington chief Wilson and told him the details without giving the name of his source. Wilson found story ludicrious and refused to run it but Leib managed to get and urgent version onto UPs foreign service. Mr. Joe Lieb's claim that Secretary of State Hull told him of the coming attack and named Pearl Harbor as the target. The trouble here is that Mr. Lieb and Mr. Hull were the only ones present at their alleged conversation, and Mr. Lieb did not see fit to tell anyone of this conversation until after Mr. Hull died. Thus there is no way independently to verify his claim. Reality is not your friend, is it? Is reality your friend? Yes, why do you make this **** up? You haven't addressed why they couldn't defeat the attack yet, also you havent explained how getting into a different war with Japan helps the USA get into a war against Germany (or was Hitler in on the big plan too?). Washington was not interested in defeating attack,much less preventing it. Clashes with reality, the US didn't have to lose to be in the war, just get attacked. By sending a war warning? War warning ?,you make me laugh,unfortunately Kimmel was not under Dutch command. A final war warning issued to all commanders in the army and navy on November 27 was not heeded because Pearl Harbor was not mentioned as a possible target. Kimmel was so incompetent that he didn't heed the warning and then spent the rest of his life trying to gloss over that simple fact.. Again you feel the need to invent what people are saying. You really should seek medical help. I think the people who made Maine Incident (unfortunately too late),Pearl Harbor (again unfortunately too late) and 9/11 should seek,no not medical help,but legal help. No, you are simply insane.
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#144
June 16th 04, 08:44 AM
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A spectacular event that would shock the nation = a surprise attack - it
never had to succeed. Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. o the US govt should believe the utterances of EVERY single foreign diplomat in the world? And act on them? should the US have gone to war on 2nd hand information from a PERUVIAN minister? If you'd planned to make this event happen you would not believe even this message had come from Jesus Crist. Who is a Peruvian minister to spoil FDRs plans? and M Dies agenda was? Good question,He was the Chairman of the Committeee, He may well have deduced that, but since the Germans didn't know about any attack on Pearl Harbour until after the event and the Brits were reading German codes, it seems likely that it was ignored as trivial. We know British knew Pearl Harbor attack ,Popovs trstimony was for Brits not new. You don't think that the "Korean underground" had reasons to be making stuff up that might draw the USA into a war with the Japanese? For those who decided to set Pearl Harbor trap for Japanase,of course every warning is very suspicious. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. Thats biggest lie of whole story,IJN sent dispatces too and their dispaches were even more easy than diplomatical ones. But the person responsible for IJN dispatches was McCollum,the Architect of Pearl Harbor trap. Thats the most important part of whole Japan story. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. See above. Yes, why do you make this **** up? Because there is only one reality and this is the reality. Clashes with reality, the US didn't have to lose to be in the war, just get attacked. US did not lose war. Even planners of Pearl Harbor paid attention to this detail,Japanase were only allowed to sink and destroy obsolete equipment. If you put the morality issue aside,you must appreciate McCollums geniality. A final war warning issued to all commanders in the army and navy on November 27 was not heeded because Pearl Harbor was not mentioned as a possible target. So Called war warning was issued for places thousands miles away from Hawaii,but not for Hawaii,even though Washington knew the exact position of Japanese Carriers and the name of their target. Capt.Ranneft of Dutch Navy,the dutch naval arrache, learned the exact position of Japanase Carriers in McCollums department. At that day,they were 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor The day was Dec,6.1941 Surprise attack????, surely not. Day of Infamy,for some in Washington surely.
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#145
June 16th 04, 11:08 AM
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... A spectacular event that would shock the nation = a surprise attack - it never had to succeed. Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. Yeah, try reading some history. o the US govt should believe the utterances of EVERY single foreign diplomat in the world? And act on them? should the US have gone to war on 2nd hand information from a PERUVIAN minister? If you'd planned to make this event happen you would not believe even this message had come from Jesus Crist. Who is a Peruvian minister to spoil FDRs plans? No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. and M Dies agenda was? Good question,He was the Chairman of the Committeee, and you didn't answer the question. He may well have deduced that, but since the Germans didn't know about any attack on Pearl Harbour until after the event and the Brits were reading German codes, it seems likely that it was ignored as trivial. We know British knew Pearl Harbor attack ,Popovs trstimony was for Brits not new. No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. You don't think that the "Korean underground" had reasons to be making stuff up that might draw the USA into a war with the Japanese? For those who decided to set Pearl Harbor trap for Japanase,of course every warning is very suspicious. Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. Thats biggest lie of whole story,IJN sent dispatces too and their dispaches were even more easy than diplomatical ones. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter does it. But the person responsible for IJN dispatches was McCollum,the Architect of Pearl Harbor trap. Thats the most important part of whole Japan story. and a complete lie like the rest of your story. Interesting, given that the Japanese didn't transmit that information. ever. See above. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? Yes, why do you make this **** up? Because there is only one reality and this is the reality. No, it is your opinion. Clashes with reality, the US didn't have to lose to be in the war, just get attacked. US did not lose war. They didn't have to lose that battle and by sinking the Japa carriers that launched the attack, they'd have ended it then and there. Reality is not your friend is it? Even planners of Pearl Harbor paid attention to this detail,Japanase were only allowed to sink and destroy obsolete equipment. You mean the equipment they refloated and used, that obsolete equipment? A final war warning issued to all commanders in the army and navy on November 27 was not heeded because Pearl Harbor was not mentioned as a possible target. So Called war warning was issued for places thousands miles away from Hawaii,but not for Hawaii,even though Washington knew the exact position of Japanese Carriers and the name of their target. Capt.Ranneft of Dutch Navy,the dutch naval arrache, learned the exact position of Japanase Carriers in McCollums department. At that day,they were 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor The day was Dec,6.1941 So you actually believe that the commander of a pacific fleet base who was competent would have ignored a war warning involving Japan, believing perhaps that it had nothing to do with his duties? it was obvious that you were not sane, but it is clear that you are stupid to boot.
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#146
June 16th 04, 01:46 PM
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Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan.
Yeah, try reading some history. You are pretty good in backpedalling. No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. Sure,alone might not be very interesting,but together with other inelligence different story. No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. Really,This one of the reasons why Tyler Kent were locked up in Britain in 1940. As Castello,a british citizen and author of "Days of Infamy"correctly stated British documents about Pearl Harbor are subject to secret US-British Intelligence agreement and cannot be declassified without US approval.So these document are in BFO but cannot be classified. Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. May I say,you believe "there is no Pearl Harbor conspiracy" so you accept it as a fact despite countless evidences proving otherwise. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter It was long presumed that as Japanase Fleet approached Hawaii it maintained complete radio silence.This is a total lie.The Fleet barely barely observed discredition,let alone silence. McCollums OPI intercepted and translated various Naval dispatches some clearly revealing that That PH was the target. The Most significant of them the was following,sent from Adm.Yamamato to the Japanase first air fleet on November 26. "The Task force,keeping its movement strickly secret and maintaining close guard aganist submarines and aircraft,shall advance into HAwaian waters and upon the very opening of the hostilities shall attack main force of US fleet and deal it a mortal blow.First air raid planned for the dawn of x-day.Exact date to be given by later order" What Washington did when they got this message? Well they issued famous "War Warning" for the places thousands miles away from Hawaii !!!!!. The issuing famous War Warning for important for Washington for two reasons. 1)They sent Japanase intel wrong message,and assured Japanase that US had no idea about Japans intentions.Pearl Harbor Trap was complete. 2)They wanted to save their own asses. Needless to say again above message was intercepted,deciphered and translated by McCollums department,the architect of Japan plan and also acted as FDRs personal routing officer. Thats the reason why none of intercepted Naval dispatces surfaced in any of Pearl Harbor investigations. You are a friend of reality,dont you?
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#147
June 17th 04, 03:38 AM
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... Read Part six of McCollum's eight part plan. Yeah, try reading some history. You are pretty good in backpedalling. Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap. No, the question is who is a peruvian minister and why should info from another Govt be given credence. Other govts have their own agendas. Sure,alone might not be very interesting,but together with other inelligence different story. So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground") together should have caused the USA to go to war? No, you believe the Brits knew, do try to distinguish between fact and your opinion. Really,This one of the reasons why Tyler Kent were locked up in Britain in 1940. As Castello,a british citizen and author of "Days of Infamy"correctly stated British documents about Pearl Harbor are subject to secret US-British Intelligence agreement and cannot be declassified without US approval.So these document are in BFO but cannot be classified. Tyler Kent was born in China in 1911. His father was a member of the U.S. Diplomatic Corps. Kent was educated at Princeton, the Sorbone, the University of Madrid and George Washington University. Kent, who spoke French, Greek, German, Russian, Italian and Spanish, joined the State Department in 1934 as a clerk in the Foreign Service and was posted to Moscow. While in the Soviet Union Kent was accused of helping White Russians to smuggle into the United States various Imperial Russian treasures. It was later revealed that he was also passing on documents to Nazi intelligence while in Moscow. Kent was transferred to London to work as a cypher clerk at the American Embassy. His arrival in England in the company of Ludwig Matthias, a Gestapo agent, brought him to the attention of MI5. In February 1940, Tyler met Anna Wolkoff. Her father, Admiral Nikolai Wolkoff, was the former aide-to-camp to the Nicholas II in London. After the Russian Revolution Wolkoff decided to remain in England. The Wolfoff family ran the Russian Tea Room in South Kensington, a place where members of the secret society, the Right Club, used to meet. Wolkoff introduced Tyler to Archibald Ramsay, the leader of the organization. Wolkoff, Kent and Ramsay talked about politics and agreed that they all shared the same political views. Kent was concerned that the American government wanted the United States to join the war against Germany. He said he had evidence of this as he had been making copies of the correspondence between President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. Kent invited Wolkoff and Ramsay back to his flat to look at these documents. This included secret assurances that the United States would support France if it was invaded by the German Army. Kent later argued that he had shown these documents to Ramsay in the hope that he would pass this information to American politicians hostile to Roosevelt. On 13th April 1940 Anna Wolkoff went to Kent's flat and made copies of some of these documents. Joan Miller and Marjorie Amor were later to testify that these documents were then passed on to Duco del Monte, Assistant Naval Attaché at the Italian Embassy. Soon afterwards, MI8, the wireless interception service, picked up messages between Rome and Berlin that indicated that Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of German military intelligence (Abwehr), now had copies of the Roosevelt-Churchill correspondence Soon afterwards Wolkoff asked Miller if she would use her contacts at the Italian Embassy to pass a coded letter to William Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) in Germany. The letter contained information that he could use in his broadcasts on Radio Hamburg. Before passing the letter to her contacts, Miller showed it to Maxwell Knight. On 18th May, Knight told Guy Liddell about the Right Club spy ring. Liddell immediately had a meeting with Joseph Kennedy, the American Ambassador in London. Kennedy agreed to waive Kent's diplomatic immunity and on 20th May, 1940, the Special Branch raided his flat. Inside they found the copies of 1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. So Tyler worked for the Nazis and got locked up by the Brits for doing so (the US having waived his immunity), he also lied ("This included secret assurances that the United States would support France if it was invaded by the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make himself good at the expense of the US and UK would he? Or to put it another way, you believe it so you accept it as fact. May I say,you believe "there is no Pearl Harbor conspiracy" so you accept it as a fact despite countless evidences proving otherwise. No, the historical evidence shows that there was no conspiracy, just a bunch of sad loons wishing there was one. No, the IJN sent none - reality is not your friend is it? But since the US had a limited number of Japanese speaking translators and those they had were tasked on the Diplomatic codes, it doesn't matter It was long presumed that as Japanase Fleet approached Hawaii it maintained complete radio silence.This is a total lie.The Fleet barely barely observed discredition,let alone silence. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. McCollums OPI intercepted and translated various Naval dispatches some clearly revealing that That PH was the target. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. The Most significant of them the was following,sent from Adm.Yamamato to the Japanase first air fleet on November 26. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. "The Task force,keeping its movement strickly secret and maintaining close guard aganist submarines and aircraft,shall advance into HAwaian waters and upon the very opening of the hostilities shall attack main force of US fleet and deal it a mortal blow.First air raid planned for the dawn of x-day.Exact date to be given by later order" Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. What Washington did when they got this message? Well they issued famous "War Warning" for the places thousands miles away from Hawaii !!!!!. The issuing famous War Warning for important for Washington for two reasons. 1)They sent Japanase intel wrong message,and assured Japanase that US had no idea about Japans intentions.Pearl Harbor Trap was complete. 2)They wanted to save their own asses. They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid. Needless to say again above message was intercepted,deciphered and translated by McCollums department,the architect of Japan plan and also acted as FDRs personal routing officer. Thats the reason why none of intercepted Naval dispatces surfaced in any of Pearl Harbor investigations. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. You are a friend of reality,dont you? The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help.
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#148
June 17th 04, 04:51 AM
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The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you
really should seek professional help. Really?? Ad Hominem attacks are not a good alternative to research. Do you remember Journalist Leib who met with Cordell Hull and received transcripts of Japanase naval dispaches revealing Pearl Harbor attack? Now as I said before he (Leib) contacted immediately his personal friend and UP Washington chief Wilson and told him the whole story,minus the identity of his source.(Cordell Hull). But Wilson found the story ludicrous and refused to run it. But Leib managed to persuade his other friend,UP cable editor Harry Frantz,to transmit it on foreign cable. So,Leib's story,transmitted on foreign cable,created a front page banner Headline in the Sunday,Nov.30,Honolulu Advertiser: "JAPANASE MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND". The journey of this news started in Cordell Hull's office and ended in the front page of an Hawaian paper. Since you are apparently a big fan of reality and truth,you might want to visit your local library check out newspaper.
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#149
June 17th 04, 06:18 AM
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Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap.
Yeah right. So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground") together should have caused the USA to go to war? Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him to enter war. I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what? Any help appreciated. would support France if it was invaded by the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make himself good at the expense of the US and UK would he? 1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. The secret corrospondence that according to declassified official documents never existed. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. IJN records only show that they were under orders to maintain radio silence but nothing about if these orders were followed all the times. Captain Ranneft,Dutch Naval Attache visited ONI twice just prior to attack, first on Dec.2 then on Dec.6. On his first visit Japanase Task force was in some spot midway between Japan and Hawai. On his last visit Task Force was 300-400 miles NW of Hawaii. So,without doubt ONI was following Japanese task force very closely. Not only military was intercepting IJN task force radio messages,but also civilians,for example an American liner in Pasific picked up heavy radio traffic from the task force and reported it to FBI. On military side,for example,A seaman in the intelligence office of the12th Naval District HQ in SF had intercepted Japan radio traffic and used it to plot accurately the position of the Task Force. He provided that info to his superiors and he was told by his superiors that his information was passed on to highest levels. Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let reality get in your way. 1)Sender of Nov,26 message which is the most revealing of all intercepted IJN dispatches was Yamamato and First air fleet was the intended recipient,not the other way around. 2)Task force never maintained 100% radio silence as explained above. They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid. As soon as they intercepted above referred Yamamato message revealing Pearl Harbor as target,they issued so called war warning . But there is a small problem,Yamamato message mentioned only one location as target,Pearl Harbor. But so called War Warning included almost every location in Pasific as possible targets EXCEPT ,well,Pearl Harbor. The Real goal of so called War Warning was not to warn possible targets,its goal was to deceive Japanese and make Japanese intel believe that US had no idea about Japanese intentions. The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you really should seek professional help. You know ,your outer space aliens,masquarading sometimes as Spanians,sometimes as German communists,sometimes as McCollum,sometimes as Islamic zealots.
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#150
June 17th 04, 07:39 AM
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Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach.
Denyav wrote in message ... To prove this absurd claim the movie Pearl Harbor is cited as proof, the actions of a fictional character in a work of fiction. Actually the reality is much worse than movie makers could even imagine. Yes folks, the fictional movie is to be supplemented with more fiction. Do you know why Kimmels predecessor was relieved of command and replaced by Kimmel? Disagreement with the boss. The architect of FDRs Japan &Pearl Harbor game plan was McCollum and McCollum was also,what a surprise !!,head of navy intelligence unit responsible IJN dispatches. Thats the reason why movies mention mostly japanase diplomatic dispatches. I just love these sorts of conspiracy theories, they provide endless hours of laughter. It was to be expected Stinnett would make his appearance, his use of the famed McCollum Memo. By the way if you really want to have us believe Stinnett is the authority check out his page 324 of his hardcover edition where he states "There is no reliable evidence, found by the author, that establishes how much of the 5 - Num [JN25] could be deciphered, translated and read by naval cryptographers in 1941". Now go back and read the book where it assumes, his opinion, his assumption, the USN could read the signals Stinnett wants them to have read, including the ones he tries to pretend were sent by radio instead of hand delivered. Stinnett has no idea what the USN could read, he simply gives his opinion. The conspiracy here is one where people are paid for telling other people what they want to hear. The truth is to be ignored, the money does the talking, be poorer for being lied to and then be unwilling to admit the mistake, and so make yourself even poorer. However the really fun thing is the way the fiction in Stinnett is to be enhanced, by promoting McCollum. No longer is he the Far East expert in the Office of Naval Intelligence, no he is promoted to the command of either ONI (Captain or Admiral rank) or the head of OP-20-GYP, the USN organisation charged with breaking Japanese codes, it was originally called OP-20-GY. Also the famed memo never went further than his boss, nowhere near FDR. By the way if the latest attempt at fiction is to somehow pretend the USN decryption section did not do the work on "purple" it shows an even bigger lack of reality. The "purple" work overloaded the section, slowing down all work. The USN had only one section of cryptographers and security cleared language experts. Finally all the IJN documents and survivors agree the force did not transmit after leaving their usual harbours. See for example the surviving logs, the 1942 IJN after action report and the post war interrogations. The idea Yamamoto would be so stupid as to put his strike force in a harbour that could only be contacted by radio is a joke. The Japanese Navy took control over the cable station at Hitokappu Bay. Also, there was a marine cable between Nemuro, Hokkaido and Shana, Etorofu in 1941 which was then tied to the telegraph office at Hitokappu Bay. Source. Recollection of Mr. Hirokazu Kawguchi of Hachioji City in Tokyo who was born at Shana in 1923 and worked at the Shana cable office. Next, there was a daily air courier service between Ominato and Hitokappu Bay to transfer documents received from Tokyo by air and to send documents to Tokyo by air while the 1st Air Fleet was at Hitokappu Bay. Source. “History on Communications” by Admiral Susumiiro Ishiguru (of Strike Force experience) (Tokyo: Tokyo Reserve Police Association 1953). You forgot the fact the US did not emerge from the Spanish American war as a major power in military terms, it lacked the navy. It was turning point,with Spanish war USN stopped acting like a littorial navy and started to act like an imperial navy. By the way folks, the conspiracy claims are dropped, instead we have something totally different dropped in. Deleted text, "You forgot item 4) the conspiracy theory around the start of the war and the claims the Maine was deliberately sabotaged by the US. The non real event. You see the fact the IJN attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941 is known and understood. The added "facts" of a conspiracy are the contributions of people who cannot cope with reality. " ope with reality. Go on, fight the everlasting conspiracy, award yourself medals for fighting the terrifying enemy, all in complete safety, since there is nothing to fight, but go on murdering the truth for personal gain. Win the non real event, since no one else is competing. Laws alone cannot deter crooks,if you are not able or willing to catch,prosecute and convict them,no crook will be deterred by the laws written in books. In same token,induviduals who plan vicious acts aganist their own people will not be deterred if the people who planned similar acts in the past could go free or still worse,regarded as Statesmen. Translation do not deal with the issues on their merits, invent crimes from years ago and use those as an excuse to do what you want to do, above all do not think. I note the fun things like the URL for the congressional petition transcript makes note of the Japanese consulate's words about a surprise attack being possible, a message not broken out before the attack, to accuse Washington of short changing the field commanders. If the assessment is a surprise attack was possible what does that say of two things, 1) the size of the defences 2) the alertness of the defences. 1) Is largely Washington determined, 2) is locally determined. But do not worry, erase item 2 and carry on with the field commanders did nothing wrong line. The rest is simply text that could not be replied to, Yes folks, understand, look for your facts in Hollywood movies, just add the words you want to historical documents and so on. It is quite simple, since unwelcome reality can be wished away just decide the preferred outcome and adjust the preferred facts accordingly. Denyav is a CIA/FBI/ABC/CBS/DKNY/USN/USAAF, oh what the heck, AAA (many organisations deleted) to ZZZZZ plant. Here to try and improve the reputation of the US by making absolutely absurd claims about it, so no one believes the real claims. By the way note below the talk is all about the missing evidence, but we are told 99.99% is available. Deleted text, on the Congressional moves, " http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/cpqu...el=TOC_545749& Go look up the other items included, the Indianapolis sinking and the waiver on time limits for decorations. " http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/docs/texts/kimmel.htm By the way the claim trying to be defended is the idea Kimmel hurled such accusations at FDR etc. Instead we have the family members putting the best case forward as to why Washington deserves some of the blame. The transcript indicates the accusations were the usual ones, the people in Washington made the errors (not the conspiracy) and the people in Pearl paid the price. Note the transcript is not about prior knowledge of the attack, only the blame game afterwards. However when you want to invent fiction just change this to conspiracy accusations. By the way in the above text Professor Gannon claims 1,000 PBY patrol planes were sent to the British pre Pearl Harbor when he calculates Pearl needed 200 for all round patrols but only had 49. The British (meaning RAF, RCAF. RNZAF and RAAF) received somewhere around 3/4 of this figure for the entire war. The US produced a whole 410 Patrol bombers in 1941, up from 34 in 1940, 22 Martin Mariners (PBM), 6 Consolidated Coranados (PB2Y) and 416 Catalinas (PBY) 1940 to 1941. The PBY had been in production pre war, with around 200 delivered by the end of 1939. Of course you need to remove from the totals the 41 patrol bombers delivered in December 1941 and probably the 54 delivered in October and November 1941 as not being available to sent to Hawaii in time. Also noting the pre war deliveries, starting in 1936, were lower powered versions, 1,800 to 2,000 HP versus 2,400 for the 1940 on versions So we have around 600 patrol bombers with the necessary range built and available to the USN and everyone else, less the attrition of normal flying, 200 of which are needed for Pearl Harbor. Presumably then over 200 are needed for the Philippines, then comes the U-boat threat to the US east coast plus Panama then comes the British requirement. The British are useful, they give feedback on actual combat operations. Do not forget aircraft for training operations as well plus the inevitable losses. Kimmel is allowed "lack of resources" but Washington is not. Nice use of logic. So what's that say 600 aircraft, less around 1/2 for obsolete types, for training and attrition, and we have 300 suitable aircraft. Pearl wants 200, the Philippines wants more, the east coast wants some, the British want some, the training system wants more so it can up the training rate and so on. Pearl Harbor was given 49 aircraft, enough to continuously cover an arc of 90 degrees according to Professor Gannon, or the approaches from the Japanese mandated islands. How many were actually flying such searches on the 5th, 6th and 7th? Gone looking for this evidence? Just jump to conspiracy theory, instead of something like they decided it looked like the Navy was being kind to its own. Deleted text, "Putting words into Kimmel's mouth now I see. Kimmel's defence was that he was deprived of information he needed, mainly messages from the local Japanese consulate and timely warning of the time the last Japanese message was supposed to be presented to the US. There was nothing said about senior leaders wanting the attack to happen." On claims the inquiries were rigged, "I like this, if the one entity argument is followed then the claimed let off for Kimmel is the rigged result, it was an all Navy affair." Ah yes the movie Pearl Harbor is your guide to US intelligence actions in 1941, but wait, there is more, since the movie is a joke on this point the need is to imply the British did it. Just ignore the way the British had more pressing matters on their hands, that the US was leading the way against Japanese diplomatic traffic and the British and US were sharing IJN code recovery work. So what one knew the other did as well. Yes folks, Kimmel was where he should be, no matter where you go, there you are. Note by the way the attempt to paint the inquiry as the absolutely right result, despite claiming not to have seen the evidence presented to it. The USN is the straight organisation, despite the fact it would have been doing the decoding of those wonder messages, it is the one that holds the "truth", everything else is wrong. The conspiracy does not apply to the naval inquiry, it could never have been rigged of course, it has the "right" result, so everything else was rigged. What did the inquiry clear Kimmel of, dereliction of duty, lack of judgement? Standard conspiracy stuff, the right answer is out there, somewhere, pick your preferred outcome. Previously before the next text was another standard claim about conspiracies, as usual the claim has to be deleted and the subject changed. I like this, especially since I posted text showing how the War Warning messages were the same around the Pacific. And MacArthur certainly did not lose more men and equipment that the people in Hawaii in the opening day of the war. What I really like is the duck, unable to answer the text, so change the subject. "By the way the above logic implies the Japanese could have invaded the Philippines, Wake and Guam, killing and capturing Americans and the US would have allowed this. The US did not need Pearl Harbor to enter the Pacific war. The IJN started sinking US merchant ships just before the attack went in." Try and read history, it provides answers like, 1) too far away to know exactly what was going on, 2) MacArthur controlling much of the information flow, 3) The low expectations about holding the Philippines, 4) The reality moving against MacArthur would provoke a reaction in Washington, being seen as an attempt by FDR to rid himself of an unwanted General. Deleted text, It would be nice to know the source of the claimed Kimmel words, it seems his lifetime's output is being searched for any claim he made, no proof offered. Remarkable line being run, the US is the source of all evil but the US is so good, so amazing, it cannot be defeated, only betrayed from within. No one can launch an unexpected attack on the US, it sees and knows all, I must ask the US where my favourite pen has ended up. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email.
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