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#11
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Gray used to have a sergeant come up to safety meetings in Seattle and
solicit PARs so that they could stay current. Bob Gardner "John Clonts" wrote in message ... "KP" wrote in message ... Lee Elson wrote in message . .. Awhile back, I asked Mugu Approach about doing a PAR. They said it wasn't possible. I think it was due to lack of staffing. This was on a weekend but I wouldn't be surprised if they won't allow it during the week either. The first thing to go when it comes to staffing is PAR. Weekends, holidays, mids, down days, and any other time the wing isn't flying it's a pretty safe bet PAR won't be available. Hours should be published. Conversely, if the wing is flying there's very likely to be dual PAR coverage (ie, staffing for two simultaneous PARs). Then if you get turned down it will be due to traffic or base policy. Nothing ventured - nothing gained I've done several PAR's at Gray Army Airfield (KGRK). Have never been turned down. Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ |
#12
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Ok, but that's a different "Gray"
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message ... Gray used to have a sergeant come up to safety meetings in Seattle and solicit PARs so that they could stay current. Bob Gardner "John Clonts" wrote in message ... "KP" wrote in message ... Lee Elson wrote in message . .. Awhile back, I asked Mugu Approach about doing a PAR. They said it wasn't possible. I think it was due to lack of staffing. This was on a weekend but I wouldn't be surprised if they won't allow it during the week either. The first thing to go when it comes to staffing is PAR. Weekends, holidays, mids, down days, and any other time the wing isn't flying it's a pretty safe bet PAR won't be available. Hours should be published. Conversely, if the wing is flying there's very likely to be dual PAR coverage (ie, staffing for two simultaneous PARs). Then if you get turned down it will be due to traffic or base policy. Nothing ventured - nothing gained I've done several PAR's at Gray Army Airfield (KGRK). Have never been turned down. Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ |
#13
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Why would comm failure be an emergency? If you follow the FARs both you
and ATC know what you should be doing all the way to your planned destination. There should be no safety of flight issue so I think you would have some explaining to do if you "diverted" to a military airfield. BTW I played phone tag today with some air operations officer, I'll try him again tomorrow. I was surprised he even called me back, his secretary wasn't too pleasant. "Well if there's nothing in it for us we aren't gonna let you do a practice approach, but we'll see what the air ops officer says." "Bob Gardner" wrote in : You are going to get a clearance to the airport, no matter what you file. Filing to an IAF is not necessary, IMHO. Comm failure is an emergency situation, opening the door to doing whatever you want to do under the PIC privilege. Bob Gardner "zatatime" wrote in message ... On 7 Jul 2004 09:53:20 -0700, (Robert M. Gary) wrote: Whenever you are going to a semi-busy airport, don't worry about filing all the way to the IAF, just to the general area. You'll always get vectors anyway. What do you when you get to the "general area" while experiencing a comm failure? Planning to the IAF gives you procedures to follow if this were to happen and all parties involved will know what to expect. z |
#14
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Responding to a couple of different postings with a single reply, sorry...
Yossarian wrote: Why would comm failure be an emergency? If you follow the FARs both you and ATC know what you should be doing all the way to your planned destination. There should be no safety of flight issue so I think you You need to know what the FARs say so you can parrot it back for your oral exam. However, there's a huge consensus that the best thing to do when you lose comm and still have navigation capability is: get on the ground as quickly as possible using any available nearby approach (assuming IMC, of course). I agree with this consensus. You're free to decide for yourself. would have some explaining to do if you "diverted" to a military airfield. I didn't hear anyone advocating diverting to a military airfield due to lost comm. BTW I played phone tag today with some air operations officer, I'll try him again tomorrow. I was surprised he even called me back, his secretary wasn't too pleasant. "Well if there's nothing in it for us we aren't gonna let you do a practice approach, but we'll see what the air ops officer says." "Bob Gardner" wrote in : You are going to get a clearance to the airport, no matter what you file. Filing to an IAF is not necessary, IMHO. Comm failure is an emergency situation, opening the door to doing whatever you want to do under the PIC privilege. Bob Gardner "zatatime" wrote in message . .. On 7 Jul 2004 09:53:20 -0700, (Robert M. Gary) wrote: Whenever you are going to a semi-busy airport, don't worry about filing all the way to the IAF, just to the general area. You'll always get vectors anyway. What do you when you get to the "general area" while experiencing a comm failure? Planning to the IAF gives you procedures to follow if this were to happen and all parties involved will know what to expect. Planning is fine, but in general -filing- doesn't do much for you. You fly the route you are cleared for, not the one you filed. In general, clearances are to the airport, at least in my part of the USA. You might as well just file to the airport to begin with. |
#15
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BTW I played phone tag today with some air operations officer, I'll try
him again tomorrow. I was surprised he even called me back, his secretary wasn't too pleasant. "Well if there's nothing in it for us we aren't gonna let you do a practice approach, but we'll see what the air ops officer says." Sounds like you are trying this the civilian way by trying to get all the top brass to agree to this. The military way would be to just fly down there and ask the controller. If the controller is bored he'll probably do it. We do practice approaches into Beale AFB and Travis AFB around here and I've never known anyone to call ahead of time. Worst case, they say no. Are you trying for a PAR approach?? -Robert |
#16
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zatatime wrote in message . ..
What do you when you get to the "general area" while experiencing a comm failure? Planning to the IAF gives you procedures to follow if this were to happen and all parties involved will know what to expect. In an actual comm failure you are required to follow your issued clearance. Filing to the IAF will (in my experience) not ever result in a clearance to go to the IAF. ATC just doesn't care what you filed when it comes to getting you to the airport. The only time you are allowed to fly what you've filed in a comm failure is if your clearance issued doesn't send you all the way to your airport. In my many years of flying IFR all over this country, I've only once not had my clearance limit not be the airport I'm going to. So, in the case of comm failure, you'd have to fly your assigned clearance anyway, not what you've filed. Of course none of this makes any difference if its not IMC all the way, if you find VMC, you just land in VMC. -Robert |
#17
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Robert M. Gary wrote:
If the controller is bored he'll probably do it. We do practice approaches into Beale AFB and Travis AFB around here and I've never known anyone to call ahead of time. Don't controllers need to maintain currency on ASR/PAR approaches? I seem to recall hearing this somewhere... - Andrew |
#18
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Don't do it. A PAR approach will not count as one of the three
required for your rating. Reason being - you're getting direction from the controller. Saw a DE bust someone on a checkride for this recently. Yossarian wrote: I'm planning my 250 nm XC for my instrument rating and would like to do a PAR approach at Pt. Mugu naval airfield (NTD) in CA on my way back from San Luis Obispo. How would I file that? I will be coming down V25, should I expect the IAF to be VTU? Is there any way to indicate in the flight plan that I would like a practice approach there on my way back to Hawthorne? Perhaps "PRAC APPCH NTD" in the remarks section? |
#19
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Robert M. Gary wrote: Sounds like you are trying this the civilian way by trying to get all the top brass to agree to this. The military way would be to just fly down there and ask the controller. If the controller is bored he'll probably do it. We do practice approaches into Beale AFB and Travis AFB around here and I've never known anyone to call ahead of time. Worst case, they say no. Are you trying for a PAR approach?? -Robert You're right; most watch supervisors are not willing to commit for practice approach approvals ahead of time, because they don't want to create any potential delays for base assigned aircraft. On the other hand, if you're in the area and ask, they'll get you in as long as the traffic at the base isn't heavy. Don't bother asking the "air ops officer" or "Chief, Air Traffic Control Operations" or anybody else other than the controllers that are working the facility. You can relay this request through the TRACON or Center. Incidentally, military controllers frequently notify the TRACON that they need practice approach aircraft for controller training purposes, so they may be sitting there just waiting for you to call! JPH |
#20
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I was wondering about that! I thought they must be getting desperate if
they had to go to Seattle to solicit PAR approaches in TX! JPH John Clonts wrote: Ok, but that's a different "Gray" "Bob Gardner" wrote in message ... Gray used to have a sergeant come up to safety meetings in Seattle and solicit PARs so that they could stay current. Bob Gardner I've done several PAR's at Gray Army Airfield (KGRK). Have never been turned down. Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ |
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