We Are All Spaniards

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:BHj6c.35891$po.318662@attbi_s52...

Thanks for your perspective. It's great to hear from the Polish aviation
community!

And, may I be the first to say, "Welcome to the group!"

Thank you - but i am not member of the group, i am just lurking here
from time to time, but my interest in piloting is platonic It's
just this time, when i saw this thread, i couldn't abstain to mail

Let's see: Britain currently has a socialist (or at least
quasi-socialist) party in power at the moment: the Labour Party. The
Conservative Party is at least as gung-ho, if not more so about
supporting the United States. The 'special relationship' with the US
enjoys strong cross-party support in Britain. The terrorists would
likely just bring in a government with an even stronger resolve to keep
fighting.

Nobody ever said that they were smart.

But still, taking down Blair would be considered a great
accomplishment. They are likely to accomplish that without bombing a
railroad: Labour may well do it for them.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On 18 Mar 2004 03:22:01 -0800, (a.d.danilecki)
wrote:

We prefer term Central Europe from Eastern, BTW. There is more
differences between Poles and Russian than between Poles and Germans.

Fascinating how the center of geography has shifted east. It wasn't so
long ago that Berlin was in Eastern Europe, never mind Warsaw.

Poles must find this some comfort after 1945, when the entire nation
was moved to the west (aka "the country on rollerskates").


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Thank you - but i am not member of the group, i am just lurking here
from time to time, but my interest in piloting is platonic

Lurkers are "members" of this group, too.

And c'mon over to Iowa -- we'll get you into the left seat of an airplane,
pronto!

It's just this time, when i saw this thread, i couldn't abstain to mail

I understand. Happens to me all the time!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:D8r6c.36932$Cb.563433@attbi_s51...
I am not by any means trying to justify terrorism, I am only trying
explain what I percieve is a very narrow and self-centerd view of what
is happening. and that this view is causing more harm than good.

Okay, Alex, please explain how, in your view, the U.S. has created the
Islamic terrorists. What have we done, as a nation, to foment terror?

I didn't say the US has created the terrorists; they are responsible
for their own actions. But I believe the US has given them a motive.
I'll repeat my earlier attempt to explain myself:

The US has been interfering with governments all over the world for
many decades. Some very exceptional and highly publized interventions
end up well (WW2). But most of them lead directly or indirectly to
poverty, famine and general misery (Lat.America). In most of these
places the people just sigh and go on in their daily struggle to
survive... Some have mixed feelings because they have the rare
privilege of having access to the US-produced goods.

Maybe the US interventions in the Middle East have been much more
unbearable, or maybe the people there aren't so sheepish and they
fight back.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:pP66c.32334$_w.539962@attbi_s53...
No one is applying a "moral system" to another culture -- we are saying that
democracy is what freedom *is* all about. This crosses all ethnic,
religious, and cultural boundaries.

I was about to say that democracy is a particular instance of many
possible freedoms, and I sincerely believe so, but I have to admit
that the universal declaration of human rights, in its article 21,
explicitly states that democracy (although it doesn't name it) is a
human right. So I accept your position.

How do YOU define "freedom," if not freedom from tyranny?

Please don't tell me you believe that the US is against tyrannies! You
can't be so naive!

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Most Palestinians came from Jordon...when they were kicked out.


Jordanians ARE Palestinians.

??? IIRC, "Palestine" is a subset.

Hi Alex,


The terrorists must now perceive that elections and troop
deployments can be influenced by indiscriminate attacks on innocent
"soft"
targets.

Then I hope the terrorists are better informed than most people in
this group.

You are not really thinking this to be remotely possible, are you? The
average terrorist does not posess much more information about world
affairs than what his leaders choose to tell him. While OBL might be
aware of the political situation in Spain and the little support the
military involvement had already before the attack, his troops
certainly only "know" exactly what was stated above: The attack got the
spanish troops out of Iraq, because we frightened them proper. It was a
great victory for holy Islam.

A very bad thing.

What I percieve is that a lot of people in the US can't face that
they
are the target because that would mean they did something to deserve
it, and that seems to be unthinkable.

What makes you think, that if someone is a target, it definitely means,
he deserves it???

If you are shot by a criminal, you obviously deserve it?? Now that's a
strange kind of logic.

regards,
Friedrich

Jay Honeck wrote:

As much as I question the value of the military action in Iraq in terms
of the war on terror, I have to agree with you and Jay here.

the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do (at least in the first months)
with terrorism. It was to enforce the search on WMD and maybe a little
bit
against
Saddam Hussein and his regime (originally fundend by whom?).

Whether we agree on this point or not is irrelevant.

What is relevant is what the terrorists perceive. They have now seen
that "Bomb+Massive Casualties=Troops out of the Middle East."

No matter how you cut it, there is nothing good here. We are all much
more vulnerable, thanks to the Spanish.

....there is nothing good here, indeed.

So what were the Spanish supposed to do? On the one hand we acknowledge that
the real reason they voted out the incumbent is they were dissatisfied -
which, of course, is just democracy in action. On the other hand we believe
the terrorists preceive the election results as a victory for their side.

Seems like the only alternative left would be for the Spanish to vote for a
government they didn't want.

No matter how you cut it, there is nothing good here. (C. Jay Honeck)

--
Frank....H

"Frank" wrote in message ...

...there is nothing good here, indeed.

So what were the Spanish supposed to do? On the one hand we acknowledge
that
the real reason they voted out the incumbent is they were dissatisfied -
which, of course, is just democracy in action. On the other hand we
believe
the terrorists preceive the election results as a victory for their side.

Seems like the only alternative left would be for the Spanish to vote for
a
government they didn't want.


The government voted out had a substantial lead in the polls prior to the
attack.