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#1
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bad cylinder
Looks like cylinder #1 on an O-360 is dying. Shop says I could get
more time out of it -- good compressions, no metal, but the bottom plug is covered in oil. Since it has 2500 hours on it, I figured that it's time. So -- the big questions 1) Overhaul or buy a new one? 2) If buying a new one, which company? And is there a core refund? (No, I will NOT get the "Lycoming" brand) 3) What is the difference in break-in procedure for overhaul v new? thanks |
#2
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bad cylinder
That's a lot of time for a cylinder. You should be proud.
Continental cylinders don't ever last that long before needing overhaul or replacement. I like Milleniums by Superior. They probably have replacements for your O-360. ECI probably makes them too. |
#3
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bad cylinder
Yes, that is a lot of time on a cylinder. That said, it is not uncommon to
find oil sometimes on the bottom plug. If it is on both plugs, then I start to worry. -- Mike Noel, Tucson, Arizona 'Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.' -Blaise Pascal "blanche cohen" wrote in message ... Looks like cylinder #1 on an O-360 is dying. Shop says I could get more time out of it -- good compressions, no metal, but the bottom plug is covered in oil. Since it has 2500 hours on it, I figured that it's time. So -- the big questions 1) Overhaul or buy a new one? 2) If buying a new one, which company? And is there a core refund? (No, I will NOT get the "Lycoming" brand) 3) What is the difference in break-in procedure for overhaul v new? thanks |
#4
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bad cylinder
Hmm, Blanche - So, what brand is the cylinder that went 2500 hours?
ECI? Millenium? Not that I care what brand cylinder you purchase, but if you were to buy a shiny new half million dollar airplane what brand cylinders will be on it? On the issue of overhaul versus new, look for an article written some years ago by Richard Collins on his experience with overhauling cylinders... He bought the airplane new... It went to TBO without any cylinder work... He overhauled the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he had couple of bad cylinders along the way... He did a second overhaul on the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he lost 4 cylinders along the way... Given the cost of having 4 cylinders removed and reworked/replaced you could buy gold plated new cylinders and still be money ahead in 2500 hours... The math is simple on cylinders, overhaul and save pennies now so you can lose dollars later... Your call... No difference on the break in procedure new cylinders versus overhauled... Seating rings is seating rings... The new rings don't know what age the cylinder is... No core deposit, new cylinders are purchased outright... The three brands differ slightly in what new parts they include... Do your home work... And finally, did you research which of the three brands have had the highest percentage of cylinder recalls under AD and which one is currently having to replace all it's one line of cylinders out in the field under an AD? Facts - not emotion, not who has the slickest ads, not rumours on the internet - facts...... cheers ... denny |
#5
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bad cylinder
1) Overhaul or buy a new one?
New. 2) If buying a new one, which company? And is there a core refund? Millennium, hand's down. 3) What is the difference in break-in procedure for overhaul v new? No difference. Make a cool lamp out of the old cylinder! -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#6
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bad cylinder
Denny wrote:
Hmm, Blanche - So, what brand is the cylinder that went 2500 hours? ECI? Millenium? Not that I care what brand cylinder you purchase, but if you were to buy a shiny new half million dollar airplane what brand cylinders will be on it? These are 3 original Lycoming cylinders from 1969 and one overhauled about 10 years ago. On the issue of overhaul versus new, look for an article written some years ago by Richard Collins on his experience with overhauling cylinders... He bought the airplane new... It went to TBO without any cylinder work... He overhauled the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he had couple of bad cylinders along the way... He did a second overhaul on the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he lost 4 cylinders along the way... Given the cost of having 4 cylinders removed and reworked/replaced you could buy gold plated new cylinders and still be money ahead in 2500 hours... The math is simple on cylinders, overhaul and save pennies now so you can lose dollars later... Your call... And your point is? I'm missing something here. No difference on the break in procedure new cylinders versus overhauled... Seating rings is seating rings... The new rings don't know what age the cylinder is... Great! My concern is how the break-in process will impact the current cylinders, too. No core deposit, new cylinders are purchased outright... The three brands differ slightly in what new parts they include... Do your home work... I'm trying. Isn't that why I posted here? r.a.o is another resource for me. And finally, did you research which of the three brands have had the highest percentage of cylinder recalls under AD and which one is currently having to replace all it's one line of cylinders out in the field under an AD? Facts - not emotion, not who has the slickest ads, not rumours on the internet - facts...... So - do you have this information handy? I get really tired of hunting thru a really crappy FAA database. You'd think with all the contracts they let for web stuff, they'd hire someone who understands the basics of user interface usability, database searches, and organization. |
#7
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bad cylinder
Jay Honeck wrote:
1) Overhaul or buy a new one? New. Yup. I just got off the phone with pricing from Superior & Air Power. Not only that, but a local EAA member wants the old core. 2) If buying a new one, which company? And is there a core refund? Millennium, hand's down. Yup. That's the pricing. 3) What is the difference in break-in procedure for overhaul v new? No difference. Make a cool lamp out of the old cylinder! Tried to make a lamp out of the old fixed gear, no luck. On my way to the airport to talk options with the shop. It may not be the entire cylinder. It may just be the rings, and the cylinder is still good. |
#8
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bad cylinder
I've got 3 ECI cylinders on one engine. I just got done checking them for
the recent replacement AD. I dodged a bullet...this time... and until when??? I also know that our aerial applicator will not touch anything made by ECI, they claim they've just seen too much junk come from that company. YMMV Jim "Blanche" wrote in message ... Denny wrote: Hmm, Blanche - So, what brand is the cylinder that went 2500 hours? ECI? Millenium? Not that I care what brand cylinder you purchase, but if you were to buy a shiny new half million dollar airplane what brand cylinders will be on it? These are 3 original Lycoming cylinders from 1969 and one overhauled about 10 years ago. On the issue of overhaul versus new, look for an article written some years ago by Richard Collins on his experience with overhauling cylinders... He bought the airplane new... It went to TBO without any cylinder work... He overhauled the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he had couple of bad cylinders along the way... He did a second overhaul on the engine and cylinders and again went to TBO, this time he lost 4 cylinders along the way... Given the cost of having 4 cylinders removed and reworked/replaced you could buy gold plated new cylinders and still be money ahead in 2500 hours... The math is simple on cylinders, overhaul and save pennies now so you can lose dollars later... Your call... And your point is? I'm missing something here. No difference on the break in procedure new cylinders versus overhauled... Seating rings is seating rings... The new rings don't know what age the cylinder is... Great! My concern is how the break-in process will impact the current cylinders, too. No core deposit, new cylinders are purchased outright... The three brands differ slightly in what new parts they include... Do your home work... I'm trying. Isn't that why I posted here? r.a.o is another resource for me. And finally, did you research which of the three brands have had the highest percentage of cylinder recalls under AD and which one is currently having to replace all it's one line of cylinders out in the field under an AD? Facts - not emotion, not who has the slickest ads, not rumours on the internet - facts...... So - do you have this information handy? I get really tired of hunting thru a really crappy FAA database. You'd think with all the contracts they let for web stuff, they'd hire someone who understands the basics of user interface usability, database searches, and organization. |
#9
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bad cylinder
Umm, wasn't trying to be coy... The point is that overhauling a used
cylinder means that the odds of that OH cylinder making it to another TBO without cracking are somewhere between 4 in 6 to less than 2 in 6, depending on the total hours since new on that barrel/head... However, the current SMOH on your engine is not specified, nor did you suggest how long you expect this engine to continue to run before needing an OH... As I 'now think' I understand your post you are looking to repair one cylinder and let the engine run until it breaks - different ball game from overhauling the engine... For that I would have the cylinder serviced and put it back on... That is one third to one half the price of new (assuming, yadda yadda) Actually, I am in the process of buying a new cylinder a month (O-320 A3B) for my starboard engine as it is beginning to oil the bottom plugs on two cylinders (roughly 1650 hours since OH with more than 5400 since new - the last OH was 1979 as it spent years in a crate)... This is in anticipation of an overhaul in the near future as my son is learning to fly and we fly 4 to 5 hours a week... denny |
#10
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bad cylinder
Denny wrote:
However, the current SMOH on your engine is not specified, nor did you suggest how long you expect this engine to continue to run before needing an OH... As I 'now think' I understand your post you are looking to repair one cylinder and let the engine run until it breaks - different ball game from overhauling the engine... For that I would have the cylinder serviced and put it back on... That is one third to one half the price of new (assuming, yadda yadda) I took the cylinder to the shop that specializes in this work and not only had a long chat, but he took apart the cylinder and showed me the details. The decision is to repair, not buy new, not overhaul. Engine overhaul is anticipated for this July (which is a lousy month in the SW US for flying due to the heat). A3B) for my starboard engine as it is beginning to oil the bottom plugs on two cylinders (roughly 1650 hours since OH with more than 5400 since Oil on the bottom plug was the red flag to the shop. Overall, I'm not really that unhappy. This repair is cheaper than another radio (which was the original problem that led to this discovery). Altho this is the first time on the airplane, I've been in this situation before more than once -- something relatively minor (in the scheme of things) but very annoying caused me to deal with the problem real soon, which in turned identified a very serious problem that was caught early. (One with my car, one medical). |
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