BRS

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
I will grant you that there is a point of diminishing returns. But
I've been flying on and off and as certificated pilot for over half of
my 46 years and haven't reached that point yet. In fact, I can't think
of any good pilot that I've ever met including pilots with 10K+ hours
that wouldn't agree that some more training will make them a safer
pilot.

I think your observation is valid but seems to reinforce, rather than
refute, my own view that after some point in a pilot's life emphasis on
training yields either ephemeral results or reaches a point where it is of
little further value relative the costs.

But I can see how it could also be seen as an argument to maintain
continuous refresher training. I'd agree with that of course.

And BRS for the 601XL I'm building costs a little over $5000. That is
equal to around 100 hours of instruction and flying of my plane. Or 20
hours of upset and recovery in an acro plane.

I considered a 601XL as a homebuilt project but it didn't appear to be a
good platform for installing a chute because it cut into the useful load a
tad too much but more importantly pushed CG balance too far aft (at least
for a baggage compartment install). Really liked the plane otherwise.

If you don't think that that money would be better spent on either of
those two options rather than a chute that (A) is only of use in some
limited situation and (B) if deployed will destroy the aircraft then
you must think that most people have reached the peak that aircraft
training has to offer. If that is the case let me know where you fly
with these folks so I can try to steer clear of the area.

I think I'd spend money on both training AND a ballistic chute. ;-)
Which would simply up my cost of aviating, I suppose. I hate being put into
either-or situations and would find a way to both train and have a plane
with a BRS - or not fly.

(Actually where I'm training they have been starting to use a personal
parachute more often when flying their single seater glider. I don't think
it is because they think they've reached the peak of possible training,
though!)

Gezellig wrote:

If it isn't insurance, is it that "one time it works and saves my life"
thing that justifies it?

That would do it for me.

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance companies
have done just that by giving better rates to those with IR as opposed
to those that don't. Insurance carriers also give better rates for
those with more time in type. Yet I've never seen a discount for
planes with a chute. If you have anything to show that that isn't the
case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no longer
correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product, and
granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots choosing
to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp...compid=8&arc=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2002127568.pdf
http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a discount
for a BRS. In fact a Google search for the word parachute {parachute
site:avemco.com} only comes up with two hits and both are talking about
the kind you wear on your back. I'm not saying they don't offer the
discount just that I couldn't find any mention of it on their site.

I'll be calling Avemco and a couple of others in the next week or so
because it is time to get insurance for my 601XL. I'll ask each one and
report back.

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance companies
have done just that by giving better rates to those with IR as
opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also give better
rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've never seen a
discount for planes with a chute. If you have anything to show that
that isn't the case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product, and
granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp...compid=8&arc=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...20080316_20021
27568.pdf http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a discount
for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so much of
your payload!



Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance companies
have done just that by giving better rates to those with IR as
opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also give better
rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've never seen a
discount for planes with a chute. If you have anything to show that
that isn't the case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product, and
granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp...compid=8&arc=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...20080316_20021
27568.pdf http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a discount
for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so much of
your payload!

Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.

In article ,
"Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance companies
have done just that by giving better rates to those with IR as
opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also give better
rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've never seen a
discount for planes with a chute. If you have anything to show that
that isn't the case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product, and
granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp...compid=8&arc=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...20080316_20021
27568.pdf http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a discount
for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so much of
your payload!

Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.

I agree with Both Bertie and Mike on this! BRS is also expensive to
maintain -- something like a mandar=ted 5-year life to replacement.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
"Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance
companies have done just that by giving better rates to those
with IR as opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also
give better rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've
never seen a discount for planes with a chute. If you have
anything to show that that isn't the case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product,
and granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp....php3?compid=8
&ar
c=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...v/20020080316_
2
0021 27568.pdf
http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a
discount for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so
much of your payload!

Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.

I agree with Both Bertie and Mike on this! BRS is also expensive to
maintain -- something like a mandar=ted 5-year life to replacement.


Well, the biggest problem with them as far as I can see is that it will
lead some to rely on them totally and accept that as a substitute for
acquiring or maintaining their skills. More than one has been popped
just because the guy flew into some cloud or ran out of gas..


Bertie

In article ,
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
"Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance
companies have done just that by giving better rates to those
with IR as opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also
give better rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've
never seen a discount for planes with a chute. If you have
anything to show that that isn't the case please post it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product,
and granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp....php3?compid=8
&ar
c=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...v/20020080316_
2
0021 27568.pdf
http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a
discount for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so
much of your payload!

Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.

I agree with Both Bertie and Mike on this! BRS is also expensive to
maintain -- something like a mandar=ted 5-year life to replacement.


Well, the biggest problem with them as far as I can see is that it will
lead some to rely on them totally and accept that as a substitute for
acquiring or maintaining their skills. More than one has been popped
just because the guy flew into some cloud or ran out of gas..


Bertie

Yep. A fellow here had a total engine failure in his Cirrus (cam gear
failed) at 6000 ft over South Florida, with his family aboard.

He did not pop the chute but made a successful deadstick landing on an
airport. Skill trumps BRS every time!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news_r_fairbairn-FF6AE1.20002229092008@70-3-168-
216.area5.spcsdns.ne
t:

In article ,
"Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance
companies have done just that by giving better rates to those
with IR as opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers
also give better rates for those with more time in type. Yet
I've never seen a discount for planes with a chute. If you
have anything to show that that isn't the case please post
it.

Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is
no longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has
already recognized the life and property saving potential of
the product, and granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums
for those pilots choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp...p.php3?compid=
8
&ar
c=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...gov/2002008031
6_
2
0021 27568.pdf
http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html

While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a
discount for a BRS.

Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so
much of your payload!

Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.

I agree with Both Bertie and Mike on this! BRS is also expensive to
maintain -- something like a mandar=ted 5-year life to replacement.


Well, the biggest problem with them as far as I can see is that it
will lead some to rely on them totally and accept that as a
substitute for acquiring or maintaining their skills. More than one
has been popped just because the guy flew into some cloud or ran out
of gas..


Bertie

Yep. A fellow here had a total engine failure in his Cirrus (cam gear
failed) at 6000 ft over South Florida, with his family aboard.

He did not pop the chute but made a successful deadstick landing on an
airport. Skill trumps BRS every time!


Yeh. I think they might be a good idea on the types of ultralights that
are inclined to flold their wings up, though..


Bertie

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
"Mike" nospam@ microsoft.com wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
And you will note that I posed as proof that the insurance
companies have done just that by giving better rates to those
with IR as opposed to those that don't. Insurance carriers also
give better rates for those with more time in type. Yet I've
never seen a discount for planes with a chute. If you have
anything to show that that isn't the case please post it.
Either your information is incorrect or the following quote is no
longer correct:

"Avemco, the leading aviation insurance underwriter, has already
recognized the life and property saving potential of the product,
and granted a 10% discount on insurance premiums for those pilots
choosing to fly with the BRS system."

The above is quoted from he
http://www.spacepda.net/featuredcomp....php3?compid=8
&ar
c=1

Also noted on these web pages where Avemco isn't named:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...v/20020080316_
2
0021 27568.pdf
http://nasatechbriefs.com/Spinoff/spinoff2002/ps_2.html
While I can find mention of a 10% discount for a new rating or
certificate on the AVEMCO site I can't find any mention of a
discount for a BRS.
Prolly figure you'll run out of gas because your BRS took up so
much of your payload!
Or crash on takeoff on a hot day because of overloading.
I agree with Both Bertie and Mike on this! BRS is also expensive to
maintain -- something like a mandar=ted 5-year life to replacement.

Well, the biggest problem with them as far as I can see is that it will
lead some to rely on them totally and accept that as a substitute for
acquiring or maintaining their skills. More than one has been popped
just because the guy flew into some cloud or ran out of gas..


Bertie

Yep. A fellow here had a total engine failure in his Cirrus (cam gear
failed) at 6000 ft over South Florida, with his family aboard.

He did not pop the chute but made a successful deadstick landing on an
airport. Skill trumps BRS every time!


Which completely supports my original position that the $5000 would be
better spent on training.