World Class: Recent Great News

Ben Flewett wrote:

Larry,

I am not 'hurling vitriol' at the PW5 design. If people
want to fly PW5s then good for them - it's none of
my business.

But, apparently, calling it "rubbish" is.

--
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change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Here is the history page of the World Class Soaring Association. The
goals they outline there match what I remember when the idea was
proposed and moved to reality.

http://www.wcsa.org/history.htm
World Class Soaring Association

An excellent reference. Thank you Eric!
I'm getting to the point, however,
where I'm really wondering if the objections to
this class are resolveable without changing
the requirements a little.

The requirement for fixed gear seems to be a biggie.
I just can't see how any of the objectors could ever be
satisfied with a fixed gear aircraft.

I suppose one could make a world class glider with
retract gear, and safety wire it down for competitions and
records. But the LS-4 performance with the gear down is, I suspect,
unacceptable to these folks.

The Sparrowhawk at 36:1 is the highest performance
fixed gear glider I'm aware of which has below 35 knot stall
speed. I personally think Windward should lower the redline to
115 KTS also (to allow it as a Sport aircraft). But is the
gear strong enough to handle repeated hamfisted punishment?
Is even 36:1 enough to satisfy naysayers?

I think the answer is no. I think those who don't want
to fly the PW-5 simply won't accept anything with fixed
gear, and/or find it absurd to fly a retract with the
gear safety wired down...
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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Ben Flewett wrote:
Mark,

So am I! That's my whole point! I would like to see
the World Class concept take off but we need a better
glider as the PW5 is too many steps backwards (over
40 years) for most pilots to accept.

The LS4 or Discus 1 would be ideal in my opinion.

Ben.

I don't think you have any problem with the PW-5 or Sparrowhawk or
Russia. I think you want a retract gear glider. You don't like this
specification in the World Class. I think this is the crux of
the "steps backwards" you allude to...
--

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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Gregg,

I dont want to appear petty in the face of your posting
but Ben said:

1)LS4 not LS3, and until very recently the LS4 was
in production

2)Ben owns a Discus 2a. I believe he said a Discus
1.

I dont want to cast doubt on the ability of the pilots
in the competition you mentioned but I interpret your
story that the competition was of a low class. Any
competition where anyone who misses two days and only
just misses out on winning is hardly testing the pilots
talents.

Unless he/she likes being a big fish in a small pond
he/she will move out of the World Class pretty quickly.


Again, Ben said that he feels, as I do, that most World
Level pilots are very interested in the idea of a single-glider
compeition but they are not willing to buy somethng
(however 'cheap') just to potter around at 1960s performance.

Owain

I would suggest looking at the World ratings before
you cast doubts on peoples ability.


At 16:36 11 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA
the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to
ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of
producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right
from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider
and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make
your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years
world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full
days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that
wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing
the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I
suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the
same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the
idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots
of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not
was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But
stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect
that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And
YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get
for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders
in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek

It states on DG's website that the moulds for the LS4
have been released to Slovenia. So this would indicate
that the LS4 will be entering production again.

Discus 1's are also still in production in the CS variety
last time I heard.

Word.


At 17:06 11 March 2004, Owain Walters wrote:

Gregg,

I dont want to appear petty in the face of your posting
but Ben said:

1)LS4 not LS3, and until very recently the LS4 was
in production

2)Ben owns a Discus 2a. I believe he said a Discus
1.

I dont want to cast doubt on the ability of the pilots
in the competition you mentioned but I interpret your
story that the competition was of a low class. Any
competition where anyone who misses two days and only
just misses out on winning is hardly testing the pilots
talents.

Unless he/she likes being a big fish in a small pond
he/she will move out of the World Class pretty quickly.


Again, Ben said that he feels, as I do, that most World
Level pilots are very interested in the idea of a single-glider
compeition but they are not willing to buy somethng
(however 'cheap') just to potter around at 1960s performance.

Owain

I would suggest looking at the World ratings before
you cast doubts on peoples ability.


At 16:36 11 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA
the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to
ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of
producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right
from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider
and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make
your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years
world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full
days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that
wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing
the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I
suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the
same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the
idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots
of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not
was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But
stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect
that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And
YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get
for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders
in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek

I think the answer is Yes

36:1 is Std Cirrus or Libelle performance & allows
an average to good pilot on an average to good (UK)
Summers day to fly 300k

The PW5, with not much more than K6e performance needs
either an excellent pilot, or an excellent day to fly
the same distance. (And the same pilot or the same
day would result in a 500 in the Cirrus or Libelle!)


Is even 36:1 enough to satisfy naysayers?

I think the answer is no. I think those who don't
want
to fly the PW-5 simply won't accept anything with fixed
gear, and/or find it absurd to fly a retract with the
gear safety wired down...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Eastern Europe is already manufaturing Glasflugel CZ 304- have you
seen the finish of that? And have you seen the quality of the new SZD
products? Guess not...

In article ,
Andreas Maurer wrote:
On 10 Mar 2004 22:00:15 -0800, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:


One wonders how the 505 works out in sailing...

Pretty simple:
If the wind is weak for half an hour, you don't have to get a trailer
and pick the 505 up to ferry it back to the coast.

Bye
Andreas

LOL. Andreas, you always crack me up...

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

This is becoming fun!

Yes, my Discus 2 is a piece of crap compared to an
ETA - accepted. Incidentally, I take no exception
to you saying that.

But there are plenty of people prepared to fly Discus
2s (and LS8s/ASW28s) but not many prepared to fly PW5s.
I am not knocking the glider - just it's use as the
World Class Glider.

Secondly, who said anything about an LS3? And the
LS4 will be back in production soon.

I own a Discus 2, not a Discus 1. So, I am not trying
to make my glider apply to two classes at once. The
Discus 2 would be a bad choice as it is too expensive.

Your story about the guy showing up two days late and
nearly winning the class doesn't not help your argument
- in fact, it helps mine. It clearly demonstates a
lack of competitiveness within the class. I have never
seen anyone show up two days late for a standard class
comp and nearly win.

You are entitled to your opinion that the PW5 is a
good world class glider. I am equally entitled to
my opinion that the PW5 has killed a class that could
be great for gliding. I am not going to stop saying
this as I believe it to be the truth.



Ben.

At 16:36 11 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA
the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to
ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of
producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right
from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider
and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make
your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years
world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full
days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that
wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing
the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I
suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the
same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the
idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots
of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not
was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But
stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect
that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And
YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get
for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders
in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek