World Class: Recent Great News

If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders

I thought that this was the goal of the club class.

So if the cost is the deciding factor, fly club class.

A 304c may cost more than a PW5- but the all round
performance is better. You get what you pay for at
the end of the day.

For the yanks, your 'bang per buck' in the states,
ready to go.

PW5- 33:1= $1060 per l/d point

304c- 42.7:1= $1311 per l/d point

I know which I'd rather pay. Also, think of the resale
value- which is going to hold its value better? give
10 years of use/depreciation and I bet they are even
closer in L/D per $.

If someone was on a budget and wanted PW5 performance,
why not just go buy a K6?

Lets just send all the PW5's to the states. Or a bonfire.


At 18:54 11 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

Mark,

So am I! That's my whole point! I would like to
see
the World Class concept take off but we need a better
glider as the PW5 is too many steps backwards (over
40 years) for most pilots to accept.

You talk about the Sparrowhawk or AC4 as candidates
for the next World class glider. I haven't flown
either
of these (and never will). But why would you change
the PW5 for some other piece of rubbish when history
has shown that pilots will not accept such a regression
in performance? In fact, why bother making the change
at all - it's just a giant leap sideways.

The LS4 or Discus 1 would be ideal in my opinion.

A lot of the excitement over having the LS4 as the
World Class glider
seems to revolve around the idea it would cost about
as much as a PW5
and have the build quality of the LS4. I think that
is a hopelessly
naive idea, based on these facts:

$35,000 PW5, IN THE USA, with standard instruments,
radio, and trailer

$43,000 304C (standard class), IN EUROPE, no radio
or trailer
$13,000 trailer, shipping, radio
-------
$56,000 in the USA

Basically, the 304C is an LS4. Now, maybe there are
pilots that think
it's still the better value, even at $21,000 more,
but it's not a cheap
glider. If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders,
pilots will
have to accept it must be a smaller, lighter glider
that won't glisten
like a polished mirror. Size, weight, and finish do
matter when you are
manufacturing something.

I hope someone with glider manufacturing experience
will tell us why I
am right/wrong about this.

--
-----
change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Ben Flewett wrote:
...
Even if there was a $100k prize I still wouldn't starting
flying PW5s.
...

Come on, if you were the only entrant for that prize,
wouldn't that be a nice and easy way to finance a new
modern high performance glider :-)

Shaun McLaughlin wrote in message ...
Lets just send all the PW5's to the states. Or a bonfire.


God no, what did we do to deserve that? Send them back to Poland.

Eric Greenwell wrote:

If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders, pilots will
have to accept it must be a smaller, lighter glider that won't glisten
like a polished mirror.

You're right. But the problem is that most pilots are *not* willing to
accept that ! At least at world level. That's all the problem...

--
Denis

R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?

Denis wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:

If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders, pilots will have to
accept it must be a smaller, lighter glider that won't glisten like a
polished mirror.


You're right. But the problem is that most pilots are *not* willing to
accept that ! At least at world level. That's all the problem...

Do you think the people complaining about the PW5 have the talent and
drive to become world level pilots, and the only thing holding them back
is the lack of a cheap competitive glider? I have the feeling most of
these pilots are more interested in a cheap high performance glider, and
not high-level competition.

My experience with world level competion pilots makes me think they will
fly _anything_ that lets them compete, though most prefer to fly the
high performance gliders.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Alternative to the the world class - the club class of course. The UK nationals
this year have at least 3 ex world champions competing. They are over
subscribed with a large waiting list. What other class, including the world
class, can you compete in at the highest level for so little. A typical
competative glider such as a 201 Libelle, ASW19 or DG 101can be bought for 12k
to 15k UKP complete with chute, instruments etc
The same level of interest is evident in all parts of the world except the USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Do you think the people complaining about the PW5 have the talent and
drive to become world level pilots, and the only thing holding them back
is the lack of a cheap competitive glider? I have the feeling most of
these pilots are more interested in a cheap high performance glider, and
not high-level competition.

My experience with world level competion pilots makes me think they will
fly _anything_ that lets them compete, though most prefer to fly the
high performance gliders.

In many countries (including France) you just cannot win a place for
world class worlds flying a PW5, because there is no national
championships (I think there are only 3 PW5 in France)!

In french team the 2 pilots who went to world class WGC had to select in
standard class or 15m nationals, they were happy to go there rather than
having no place in any WGC but surely were somewhat frustrated not to go
to a "true" WGC...

I don't say that the WC concept is not good, but perhaps the PW5 was not
the better choice for that...

--
Denis

R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:55:52 UTC, Ben Flewett
wrote:

: I am simply pointing out the the World Class concept
: has failed because we have selected the PW5.

I don't think has much to do with the PW5. I think the whole idea was
bound to fail because there are too many cheap, second hand gliders
with good performance out there. To succeed as a low-cost competition
glider, any design is going to have to undercut fifteen year old
Discii, ASW20's, Pegases, Libelles and even (shudder) Astirs. It's
just not going to happen.

Competition is no good as a driver, either. Only a tiby, tiny
proportion of glider pilots are interested in competing. Mind you,
running the world championships for a budget class glider in the
country which (although beautiful and full of friendly people)
probably represents the highest aggregate travel costs for
participants of anywhere in the world is an, um, intriguing idea.

Ian
--

Denis wrote:
...
I think there are only 3 PW5 in France)!
...

According to Pascal BRUGIER (http://w3.teaser.fr/~pbrugier/index.htm)
5 of them are registred : F-CICA to F-CICE.