Variations in soft field landings

I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

Maxwell wrote:
I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

You definitely should not raise the flaps on a soft field landing! Are
you sure you aren't thinking of a short field landing instead? Even
then, I wouldn't recommend it although I do know CFIs who do make this
recommendation. However, I've never heard such a recommendation for a
soft field. Trust me, braking isn't a problem on a truly soft field!


Matt

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:10:06 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Maxwell wrote:
I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

You definitely should not raise the flaps on a soft field landing! Are
you sure you aren't thinking of a short field landing instead? Even
then, I wouldn't recommend it although I do know CFIs who do make this
recommendation. However, I've never heard such a recommendation for a
soft field. Trust me, braking isn't a problem on a truly soft field!

FWIW, 172S and 182T checklists both say flaps up after landing for
short field to get weight on wheels and better breaking.

I wouldn't pull the flaps on soft either, the last thing you want on a
soft field is extra weight to dig in the wheels and heavy breaking....

back when we had 40 - 50 - or 60 degrees of flaps available we didn't always
raise them even for short field landings. At 60 degrees and full back
elevator the O-1 would almost hover to a landing, brakes were kind of
ornamental at times.

The point is it all depends on the aircraft you're flying, the surface
friction, and where you want to turn-off. There shouldn't be a pedantic
mantra that you follow regardless of circumstance.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Maxwell wrote:
I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon
as possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down
for drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

You definitely should not raise the flaps on a soft field landing! Are
you sure you aren't thinking of a short field landing instead? Even then,
I wouldn't recommend it although I do know CFIs who do make this
recommendation. However, I've never heard such a recommendation for a
soft field. Trust me, braking isn't a problem on a truly soft field!


Matt

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
et...
back when we had 40 - 50 - or 60 degrees of flaps available we didn't
always raise them even for short field landings. At 60 degrees and full
back elevator the O-1 would almost hover to a landing, brakes were kind of
ornamental at times.

The point is it all depends on the aircraft you're flying, the surface
friction, and where you want to turn-off. There shouldn't be a pedantic
mantra that you follow regardless of circumstance.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

B I N G O !

Plus what works in airplane A is likely to be very costly in airplane B...

Examples. In a Cessna 120, the best short field technique I've found is to
simply plant the mains as soon as you get down to the ground (and over the
threshold) and lean on the brakes. If you try to 3-point, all you are going
to do is float if you are even a teeny bit fast. In a Luscombe, as I
understand it, that technique will get you stopped quickly but cost you a
prop and engine overhaul. Try it in a Cessna 150 and you are going to
wheelborrow and stand a chance of doing some significant damage.

If you have a Johnsen bar for the flaps and fixed gear, it MIGHT make sense
to retract. If you have electric flaps that take 15 - 20 seconds to retract,
and the flap lever is right next to the gear - well - I could probably think
of dumber things to do, but I'd have to work at it.

Learn to fly whatever airplane you are flying. They all have their
differences. That's why there is more than one kind.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Maxwell" wrote in message m...
:I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
: landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
: possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
: drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.
:
: However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
: insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
: slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.
:
: What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
: touchdown on a soft field landing?
:
:

Leave the flaps down for soft field so you don't dig in. Raise the flaps on asphalt or other good braking surface for
max braking performance on a short field while keeping the stick back...

On 4/25/2007 6:11:13 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:

Leave the flaps down for soft field so you don't dig in. Raise the flaps
on asphalt or other good braking surface for max braking performance on a
short field while keeping the stick back...

That's how I learned it and IIRC, that is how Cessna lays it out in the
procedure section of the POH for the newer model C172s (the relevance here
being that this was the aircraft in which I originally trained).

--
Peter

Maxwell wrote:

I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?



Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.

Erik wrote:


Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.


That is the weekend pilot information you got there. You give up
performance but you'll never retract the wheels on the ground. It's a
newbie answer. Are you a newbie?

Not a newbie issue, years ago while flying at a USAF aero club. The club
manager with plenty of hours did that in a M20C. Damn near canceled my CA
to PA cross country for my 21st Birthday but they got it fixed just in time.

So it can happen Newbie or not.

Ron Gardner
"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Erik wrote:


Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.


That is the weekend pilot information you got there. You give up
performance but you'll never retract the wheels on the ground. It's a
newbie answer. Are you a newbie?