Soft-field landing in C172

Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

Magnus wrote:
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.

In the real world all the time. I land on dirt runways that are
anywhere from 1000 feet long to 5000 feet long in my 182. Your landing
technique depends on what the actual conditions are when you land.



Ususally
if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field too out
in the bush somewhere.

No, not really.

In the real world all the time. I land on dirt runways that are
anywhere from 1000 feet long to 5000 feet long in my 182. Your landing
technique depends on what the actual conditions are when you land.


How soft can you go? I'm looking at purchasing (or homebuilding) something
to operate from my farm. I have 1000 feet avavialbe that I can clean up the
rest of the rocks and clear the trees at the end, but it was cultivated for
many years before I purchased it.

The soil is rich red clay based loam that turns to "swallow the car muck"
when it gets a good rain, but with a grass cover and light rain it is just a
little slippery.....

There is a guideline for home strips from Aussie Gov. that recommends a
light truck leaving about an inch of depression in the surface being a
cut-off for flying onto, but maybe I should just invest in a good set of
skis or floats for when it gets heavy? ;)

Peter

Bushy wrote:
In the real world all the time. I land on dirt runways that are
anywhere from 1000 feet long to 5000 feet long in my 182. Your landing
technique depends on what the actual conditions are when you land.



How soft can you go?

I generally avoid muddy soft, too much work cleaning up the plane. Plus
you never know whats really under the mud. I don't hesitate to land on
grass, dirt, gravel, dry river beds, shorlines, etc.



I'm looking at purchasing (or homebuilding) something
to operate from my farm. I have 1000 feet avavialbe that I can clean up the
rest of the rocks and clear the trees at the end, but it was cultivated for
many years before I purchased it.

The soil is rich red clay based loam that turns to "swallow the car muck"
when it gets a good rain, but with a grass cover and light rain it is just a
little slippery.....

With 1000 feet total you're in Cub territory. In really wet conditions
you may be grounded for a day ot two.


There is a guideline for home strips from Aussie Gov. that recommends a
light truck leaving about an inch of depression in the surface being a
cut-off for flying onto, but maybe I should just invest in a good set of
skis or floats for when it gets heavy? ;)

Get a roller and compact the earth with a nice crown in the middle for
drainage.

"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

The increased power is not needed to soften the touchdown. It is needed to
keep the airplane rolling once it has touched down. You only use it on very
soft surfaces, such as mud or snow. You can land very softly in a Cessna 172
with no power and full flaps.

The approach should be at the same speed as a short field landing, but not
at the steep angle of a short field landing unless there is an obstacle.
Basically a soft field landing is a normal landing made at the approach
speed of a short field landing.

You cannot use normal braking on a soft field because it is usually
slippery. Dry grass (according to the C172 POH) will increase your landing
roll by 40%. Mud, snow or ice would increase it still further.

Nevertheless, the length of the landing area is not the critical factor in
deciding whether to land a Cessna 172 there. Takeoff distances are nearly
always much longer than landing distances. The increased rolling resistance
of a soft field exacerbates this problem. If the length of the field is such
that you are going to have difficulty landing there, odds are you will not
be able to leave.

I live on a grass/dirt 3300 foot strip. Not short but after rain can be
very soft. I've learned that 'soft' covers a lot of territory. Slippery
grass, pull the wheels off mud and a bunch of variations in between.

I think the 'keeping a little power-on" during the flare has value in
certain (a lot of?) aircraft. When I was working out in a 60's Mooney, it
was clear that without power, a minimum speed landing would result in
immediate nose wheel contact unless a little power was held. That's a bad
thing in mud. Among other things it may be the last thing you see clearly
until the rags come out.

A little power seems to be a good thing in my tailwheel Maule. When doing
minimum speed stuff, it is well known that the Maule will run out of
elevator authority (and get into a high descent rate condition if high).
The fix is a little power. When I'm landing in the mud, I want go be able
to plant that tailwheel with full back elevator in order to avoid a mud
encounter followed by any nosing over, and a little power seems to help keep
some positive elevator authority. But that's just my sense of things.
Ironically, a little power and down elevator is the key to keeping the
tailwheel unstuck at taxi speeds but (see nose over).

Power and elevator control (and flaps) is the key to soft field *operations*
including taxi, TO and Landing. A C172 may be fine with a power-off touch
down but if you do a beautiful minimum speed full stall landing, you still
have options but flying may not be one of them. Clearly some other aircraft
require carrying a little power during such landings which makes the
technique a valuable one to learn and be proficient at.

I'm not a CFI.
"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

Ok, makes sense. I've landed on some extremely sluschy surfaces back in
sweden in the pawnee and at one point we were taking off (2100' runway)
and half way on the takeoff roll I hit a massive pool of water that
wasn't visible in the grass. Lost me 20 kts of airspeed easily.
Fortunately I braked and the glider disconnected and we were fine.
After that I did tell them that we'd had enough for the day though, and
my poor plane was covered in grass and mud.

Glider pilots can be very persistent when they've taken the time to
come out and assemble their planes :-)

On 2004-03-25 08:14:15 -0500, "Maule Driver"
said:

I live on a grass/dirt 3300 foot strip. Not short but after rain can be
very soft. I've learned that 'soft' covers a lot of territory. Slippery
grass, pull the wheels off mud and a bunch of variations in between.

I think the 'keeping a little power-on" during the flare has value in
certain (a lot of?) aircraft. When I was working out in a 60's Mooney, it
was clear that without power, a minimum speed landing would result in
immediate nose wheel contact unless a little power was held. That's a bad
thing in mud. Among other things it may be the last thing you see clearly
until the rags come out.

A little power seems to be a good thing in my tailwheel Maule. When doing
minimum speed stuff, it is well known that the Maule will run out of
elevator authority (and get into a high descent rate condition if high).
The fix is a little power. When I'm landing in the mud, I want go be able
to plant that tailwheel with full back elevator in order to avoid a mud
encounter followed by any nosing over, and a little power seems to help keep
some positive elevator authority. But that's just my sense of things.
Ironically, a little power and down elevator is the key to keeping the
tailwheel unstuck at taxi speeds but (see nose over).

Power and elevator control (and flaps) is the key to soft field *operations*
including taxi, TO and Landing. A C172 may be fine with a power-off touch
down but if you do a beautiful minimum speed full stall landing, you still
have options but flying may not be one of them. Clearly some other aircraft
require carrying a little power during such landings which makes the
technique a valuable one to learn and be proficient at.

I'm not a CFI.
"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

Use the biggest tires (tyres) available for your aircraft

Bushy wrote:

In the real world all the time. I land on dirt runways that are
anywhere from 1000 feet long to 5000 feet long in my 182. Your landing
technique depends on what the actual conditions are when you land.


How soft can you go? I'm looking at purchasing (or homebuilding) something
to operate from my farm. I have 1000 feet avavialbe that I can clean up the
rest of the rocks and clear the trees at the end, but it was cultivated for
many years before I purchased it.

The soil is rich red clay based loam that turns to "swallow the car muck"
when it gets a good rain, but with a grass cover and light rain it is just a
little slippery.....

There is a guideline for home strips from Aussie Gov. that recommends a
light truck leaving about an inch of depression in the surface being a
cut-off for flying onto, but maybe I should just invest in a good set of
skis or floats for when it gets heavy? ;)

Peter

Remove wheel pants when operating from turf on a regular basis. Wet
grass can accumulate and become trapped in the wheel pant and grab the
wheel at a very inopportune moment.

Magnus wrote:

Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

Gliders typically land on turf strips. Talk with the operators and look at
their tire sizes, etc. There are FAA documents that spec out requirements
for an "official" landing strip. One caution: gopher holes. They are hard
to see while landing and can give the plane a nasty bump.


"jsmith" wrote in message ...
Use the biggest tires (tyres) available for your aircraft

Bushy wrote:

In the real world all the time. I land on dirt runways that are
anywhere from 1000 feet long to 5000 feet long in my 182. Your
landing
technique depends on what the actual conditions are when you land.


How soft can you go? I'm looking at purchasing (or homebuilding)
something
to operate from my farm. I have 1000 feet avavialbe that I can clean up
the
rest of the rocks and clear the trees at the end, but it was cultivated
for
many years before I purchased it.

The soil is rich red clay based loam that turns to "swallow the car
muck"
when it gets a good rain, but with a grass cover and light rain it is
just a
little slippery.....

There is a guideline for home strips from Aussie Gov. that recommends a
light truck leaving about an inch of depression in the surface being a
cut-off for flying onto, but maybe I should just invest in a good set of
skis or floats for when it gets heavy? ;)

Peter