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Plane with no stall warning device?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 16th 04, 04:31 AM
JDMX5er
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In article , Roy Smith
writes:

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


The IAI 1124 Westwind jet I fly does not have any stall warning devices
installed. I have not taken it to a full stall and break, but it does give
plenty of warning, via buffeting, of an impending stall.

G. Lee
(If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it ain't fixed, don't fly it.)
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  #12  
Old January 16th 04, 05:06 AM
Ron Wanttaja
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On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:21:48 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


My Aeronca 7AC has no mechanical stall warning device. Few aircraft of that
vintage do.


The Citabria I learned to fly on (7ECA) was licensed under the same
certificate as the 7AC, and it didn't have a stall warning device.

They are certified, of course, but very few of the 25,000 homebuilts in the
US have mechanical stall warning systems. Of course, the bracing wires of
my Fly Baby sing "Nearer My God to Thee" when I get too slow.... :-)

Ron Wanttaja

  #13  
Old January 16th 04, 05:17 AM
Mackfly
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Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?


Aeronca Champ 7CCM---so much as they are not "airplanes" I've not yet seen a
sailplane with a stall warning device. Funny, considering how much time we
spend banked to 45 degrees or more just above stall. Oh that's right, we
become "one" with the plane, don't need no stinken stall warning. Mac
  #14  
Old January 16th 04, 07:17 AM
Marty Shapiro
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Don Tuite wrote in
news
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:49:16 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

The SOCATA Rallye does NOT have a stall warning device!

It has automatic leading edge slats which will pop out at larger
angels of attack, but you are still well above stall.

A power off stall is very interesting in this aircraft. You start to
get stall buffett and, if you simply hold the yoke all the way back,
you descend a little over 1000 fpm with the nose level on the horizon.
You can turn with just the ailerons as you are descending.


What happens if you yank the sitck back?

Or if you start to apply rudder to accelerate a turn and then apply
opposite aileron to keep from banking too steeply and just keep on
crossing the controls while you bleed off airspeed?

Just curious. I'm sure the results in the Socata are benign.

Don


I've gotten a slight stall break in a 3/4 power on stall. Very benign with
a slight fall off to the right which was easily countered with ruddder.
With full power and no flaps, I've approached stall buffet, but at that
point I was more than 30 degrees nose high and felt like I was going to
tumble out of my seat backwards. And, at the onset of stall buffet, I was
still climbing!

The Rallye is a STOL aircraft with oversized control surfaces and Fowler
flaps. I have done turns starting from a maximum forward slip and didn't
notice any adverse behavior, but I was probably 10 knots above stall.

I've done 45 degree banked turns at MCA and found the aircraft handling to
be smooth and solid. One of my partners has gone to 60 degrees bank at MCA
and said he had the same results.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)
  #15  
Old January 16th 04, 02:53 PM
EDR
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In article , Marty Shapiro
wrote:

It has automatic leading edge slats which will pop out at larger angels of
attack, but you are still well above stall.


Those wouldn't be the angels of death, by chance, would they?
  #16  
Old January 16th 04, 04:51 PM
Ron Natalie
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...
In article ,
"Ron Natalie" wrote:

Navions don't have one. I believe it's optional on Maules.


Are these CAR-3 or a FAR-23?

Now that I think about it, I've flown a Decathlon. I honestly don't
remember if it had a stall warning or not. My recollection is you knew
you were stalled when you saw the ground going round-and-round :-)


The Navion is CAR 3. Dunno about the Maule.

  #17  
Old January 16th 04, 06:25 PM
Marty Shapiro
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EDR wrote in
:

In article , Marty Shapiro
wrote:

It has automatic leading edge slats which will pop out at larger
angels of attack, but you are still well above stall.


Those wouldn't be the angels of death, by chance, would they?


Only if I attach something to the 4 hard points standard on the Rallye
235E!

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)
  #18  
Old January 16th 04, 06:31 PM
Larry Fransson
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The Cessna 501 and 551 (better known as the Citation I SP and II SP) meet
part 25 requirements, but are placed under part 23 for single pilot
operations. They have no stall warning devices. There is a very
significant prestall buffet.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA
  #19  
Old January 16th 04, 07:18 PM
Gene Seibel
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My Tri-Pacer had none.
--
Gene Seibel
Tri-Pacer Page - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane2.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.




Roy Smith wrote in message ...
Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

**23.207 *Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?

  #20  
Old January 26th 04, 08:19 PM
ShawnD2112
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Whole bunches of early machines don't have them including (but not limited
to

Piper Cub series
Taylorcraft BC-12D
Pitts Special
P-51 Mustang
Corsair
Spitfire

The Falco had an aerodynamic rather than mechanical. There's a false
leading edge on about 6 inches of the wing which causes turbulent air over
that section and makes a buffeting on the wing to give the indication of an
impending stall.

I personally haven't flown an airplane with a stall warning in about 250
hours (last 5 years or so) and, quite frankly, would rather do without the
racket.

Shawn
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Researching a question from a club member, I read in the FAR's:

23.207 Stall warning.
[...]
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give
clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight.

Every plane I've ever flown has a mechanical stall warning device (some
visual, some aural), but apparantly it's possible to certify a plane
without one. Does anybody know of any real life examples of planes
certified without stall warning devices?



 




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