Calif glider property tax fishing?

Last week I received an official looking letter from the Assessor for
Kern County (Bakersfield), demanding to know the location and value of
my glider on 1 Jan 05. It threatens to impose a penalty if I fail to
file the enclosed form by 7 May.

The puzzling thing is, my glider has never been in or near that county.
I'm thinking of calling them (no toll free number provided), and
inquiring as to why they think I owe them a form at all.

Is this just a fishing expedition on their part? Can I just ignore it?
Can they be required to prove my glider was ever in Kern County?

If you've been through this, you may reply privately if you wish.

Thanks,
Ken

Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken. If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send you a bill. If you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state, as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ

wrote:
Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken. If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send you a bill. If
you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state, as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ


I second JJ's comments. I would call them and ask for instructions.
Typically, they will ask you to afix a copy of you last tax bill. that
should solve the problem.

Do NOT blow off the bill - a lien is difficult to remove. I almost
could not close on my house because of a $50.00 lien record for glider
property tax from the county of San Bernadino!!

In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken. If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send you a bill. If
you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state, as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ


I second JJ's comments. I would call them and ask for instructions.
Typically, they will ask you to afix a copy of you last tax bill. that
should solve the problem.

Do NOT blow off the bill - a lien is difficult to remove. I almost
could not close on my house because of a $50.00 lien record for glider
property tax from the county of San Bernadino!!


But wait! I don't live in Kern County and the glider is not now nor
never has been in Kern County. The form says it's for "initial or
biennial review". Neither of those apply to me.

It seems to me that they only way I actually owe them money is if my
glider is or was in Kern County, neither of which is true.

Can't I just ask that they prove I owe them money? Why should I have to
prove that I *don't* owe them money? Does every aircraft owner get a
letter from these guys or am I just lucky?

I don't really mind paying what I owe, but I don't owe these guys
anything.

Ken

So send the response that you are not a resident of Kern County, and that
the glider has never been based in Kern County. And if you have last years
tax receipt from your own county, then maayybee.. offer then a copy.

It seems all the states and counties are getting wise to the fact of
"personal property taxes" on aircraft, and they are scouring the FAA record
base. A few years ago we received a "tax bill" for a glider that was
supposedly part of our club. Luckily some of the "old hat" members
remembered the glider, it was an old 2-22 that had been destroyed and taken
to the land fill, but evidently the N number was still in the FAA data base.

I was able to find the aircraft listed there and had the information I
needed to address the oldsters in the club. The registered owner had even
expired.. thankfully they did not take him to the land fill.

A simple letter to the County Assessor stating those facts, and the
information that the address they had for the "owner" did not even show up
in their own tax rolls was enough for the county to drop the issue.

So send them a letter registered mail, that the glider has never been
"domiciled" in their county, and neither have you. It might help if it's on
your lawyers or tax accountants letter head.

BT

"ken ward" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken. If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send you a bill. If
you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state, as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ


I second JJ's comments. I would call them and ask for instructions.
Typically, they will ask you to afix a copy of you last tax bill. that
should solve the problem.

Do NOT blow off the bill - a lien is difficult to remove. I almost
could not close on my house because of a $50.00 lien record for glider
property tax from the county of San Bernadino!!


But wait! I don't live in Kern County and the glider is not now nor
never has been in Kern County. The form says it's for "initial or
biennial review". Neither of those apply to me.

It seems to me that they only way I actually owe them money is if my
glider is or was in Kern County, neither of which is true.

Can't I just ask that they prove I owe them money? Why should I have to
prove that I *don't* owe them money? Does every aircraft owner get a
letter from these guys or am I just lucky?

I don't really mind paying what I owe, but I don't owe these guys
anything.

Ken

Having paid taxes elsewhere is the best bet.
Sometimes the assessor mixes up a tail number, so
suggest this in the letter and offer proof that you
paid tax
elsewhere...

At 03:30 05 April 2005, Btiz wrote:
So send the response that you are not a resident of
Kern County, and that
the glider has never been based in Kern County. And
if you have last years
tax receipt from your own county, then maayybee.. offer
then a copy.

It seems all the states and counties are getting wise
to the fact of
'personal property taxes' on aircraft, and they are
scouring the FAA record
base. A few years ago we received a 'tax bill' for
a glider that was
supposedly part of our club. Luckily some of the 'old
hat' members
remembered the glider, it was an old 2-22 that had
been destroyed and taken
to the land fill, but evidently the N number was still
in the FAA data base.

I was able to find the aircraft listed there and had
the information I
needed to address the oldsters in the club. The registered
owner had even
expired.. thankfully they did not take him to the land
fill.

A simple letter to the County Assessor stating those
facts, and the
information that the address they had for the 'owner'
did not even show up
in their own tax rolls was enough for the county to
drop the issue.

So send them a letter registered mail, that the glider
has never been
'domiciled' in their county, and neither have you.
It might help if it's on
your lawyers or tax accountants letter head.

BT

'ken ward' wrote in message
.
com...
In article ,
wrote:

wrote:
Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken.
If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send
you a bill. If
you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against
your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify
the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state,
as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ


I second JJ's comments. I would call them and ask
for instructions.
Typically, they will ask you to afix a copy of you
last tax bill. that
should solve the problem.

Do NOT blow off the bill - a lien is difficult to
remove. I almost
could not close on my house because of a $50.00 lien
record for glider
property tax from the county of San Bernadino!!


But wait! I don't live in Kern County and the glider
is not now nor
never has been in Kern County. The form says it's
for 'initial or
biennial review'. Neither of those apply to me.

It seems to me that they only way I actually owe them
money is if my
glider is or was in Kern County, neither of which
is true.

Can't I just ask that they prove I owe them money?
Why should I have to
prove that I *don't* owe them money? Does every aircraft
owner get a
letter from these guys or am I just lucky?

I don't really mind paying what I owe, but I don't
owe these guys
anything.

Ken



Mark J. Boyd

Hey Ken,

It's nice to know that Kern is sending letters to someone. I live in
Kern and last year, didn't get a tax bill for my glider and missed the
deadline. In addition to the penalty, they charged me a $20
"notification" fee. Got the same treatment for my boat. Now, I have the
unsecured property tax deadline marked on my calender so they can't
swindle me again. Here's an idea -- why don't you send Kern some money
so they can send tax bills to us Kern residents!!!

Sorry for your troubles,
Steve

ken ward wrote:
Last week I received an official looking letter from the Assessor for

Kern County (Bakersfield), demanding to know the location and value
of
my glider on 1 Jan 05. It threatens to impose a penalty if I fail to

file the enclosed form by 7 May.

The puzzling thing is, my glider has never been in or near that
county.
I'm thinking of calling them (no toll free number provided), and
inquiring as to why they think I owe them a form at all.

Is this just a fishing expedition on their part? Can I just ignore
it?
Can they be required to prove my glider was ever in Kern County?

If you've been through this, you may reply privately if you wish.

Thanks,
Ken

What you may be seeing is a state looking for money. Since the federal
government is cutting all they can and there are still medicaid and
universities to support, states might be looking a high dollar items,
erroneously or not.

In many states there are laws on the books to tax personal property at the
residential level. In the 1950's people were often taxed on ownership of
radios, TV's, washing machines, refrigerators, and so on. If the states
and counties get desperate enough, you may find the assessors on your front
step armed with the statutes that allow an inventory of your personal
items. Ever play Monopoly? What image was on the excise tax square, a
diamond ring right?

You might ask your parents or grandparents about personal property taxation
50-60 years ago. Some states were certainly more onerous than others, but
I reckon the majority may have such statutes on the books. When the burden
and cost of services is passed to the local authorities, they could get
very personal about your property indeed. Check out the writings of Max
Weber some day.

Frank Whiteley

BTIZ wrote:

So send the response that you are not a resident of Kern County, and that
the glider has never been based in Kern County. And if you have last
years tax receipt from your own county, then maayybee.. offer then a copy.

It seems all the states and counties are getting wise to the fact of
"personal property taxes" on aircraft, and they are scouring the FAA
record base. A few years ago we received a "tax bill" for a glider that
was supposedly part of our club. Luckily some of the "old hat" members
remembered the glider, it was an old 2-22 that had been destroyed and
taken to the land fill, but evidently the N number was still in the FAA
data base.

I was able to find the aircraft listed there and had the information I
needed to address the oldsters in the club. The registered owner had even
expired.. thankfully they did not take him to the land fill.

A simple letter to the County Assessor stating those facts, and the
information that the address they had for the "owner" did not even show up
in their own tax rolls was enough for the county to drop the issue.

So send them a letter registered mail, that the glider has never been
"domiciled" in their county, and neither have you. It might help if it's
on your lawyers or tax accountants letter head.

BT

"ken ward" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
Well, they may have you by the short hairs, Ken. If you ignore them,
they will assign a value to your sailplane and send you a bill. If
you
don't pay the bill, they will file a lien against your ship. If you
tell them it's in another county, they will notify the other county.
Doesn't even work to tell them its in another state, as they will
notify the other state, also.
Been there, Done that,
JJ


I second JJ's comments. I would call them and ask for instructions.
Typically, they will ask you to afix a copy of you last tax bill. that
should solve the problem.

Do NOT blow off the bill - a lien is difficult to remove. I almost
could not close on my house because of a $50.00 lien record for glider
property tax from the county of San Bernadino!!


But wait! I don't live in Kern County and the glider is not now nor
never has been in Kern County. The form says it's for "initial or
biennial review". Neither of those apply to me.

It seems to me that they only way I actually owe them money is if my
glider is or was in Kern County, neither of which is true.

Can't I just ask that they prove I owe them money? Why should I have to
prove that I *don't* owe them money? Does every aircraft owner get a
letter from these guys or am I just lucky?

I don't really mind paying what I owe, but I don't owe these guys
anything.

Ken

I'll give my tax man experiences and it may answer some questions /
devious plans to outwit the county:

+++ Sierra County sent me the fishing expedition letter and I ignored
it, they called up Truckee and asked old Les Seabold what an LS-6 was
worth. Les was a friend, so he told them 16K. I got a bill based on
that value. I then decided I would like to talk to them and called the
tax office. Errrr, that value isn't right, I only payed 6K for my LS-6
(factually true, but it was rolled up in a ball at the time) Too late,
you should have responded before our assed value was
assigned....................... I paid it.

+++ A few years later, got another letter asking about a Grob 103 I had
on lease-back at Truckee. This time I told them it was based at Minden,
NV. (somewhat true, as it left Truckee in the fall and could have been
stored at Minden) Nothing for about 6 months and then I get a letter
from Douglas County, Minden, NV. Thought I'd try ignoring them, bad
idea. They assigned a value and sent me my
tax........................... I paid it.
:) JJ

I think we are missing the point on what Ken was asking about. The
issue is not about paying propert tax in the county where aircraft is
based. The issue is about counties sending fishing expedition letters
based on the data from the FAA database alone, having no proof
whatsoever that glider is actually stored in the county. Now imagine
if you would receive letter from the county stating that they think you
violated speed limit on their roads and unless you can prove that you
haven't been in their county for the past 5 years you owe them fee for
the traffic violation ! That would be ridiculous, but so is this! Why
do I have to spend my time and money to defend myself when I did
nothing wrong ?

I have no problem with counties sending notifications that would let me
know that if the glider is stored in the county I owe tax. However, I
think counties should be required by law to provide significant proof
that aircraft is stored in the county before threathening with
penalties for not suppying them with information.

Having said that, when I received a letter from LA county demanding to
supply them with information about the aircraft, I did what people
suggested here to do - called them up, let them know aircraft is not in
LA county , then send them a mail with an invoice for the arcraft
purchase and letter stating where aircraft resides. Haven't heard from
them since and still waiting to hear from the county where the aircraft
is stored.


Limus