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#82
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"MariaSanguini" wrote in message ... According to Doug, KPRC is a training facility, and they have a lot of inexperienced controllers there undergoing training. Do you know for certain, or does Doug, that this IS one of those inexperienced controllers? And not that they're all perfect, but does being relatively new or inexperienced mean that THEY are "wrong" to mention something to a pilot that they see might be a potential safety issue? If she was undergoing training she'd have had an instructor with her. Have you ever seen any documentation, either written or on instructional videotapes, for private pilot students that describes making final approach ANY OTHER WAY than by lining up the airplane with the extended runway centerline? No. |
#83
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On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:45:00 -0700, "Jim Cummiskey"
wrote: chain"--perhaps ensuring I understood the domain of her authority on a slow Sunday morning. But, according to ATC Paul, the Tower Manager, HIS controller was absolutely WRONG! Does his vote count? Or, am I still just a troller? According to the other ATC controllers who have posted here, who have given you the clear text verbiage from the FARs, AIM, and FAA documentation that the controllers are supposed to be going by, I would say that no - that tower manager's vote doesn't count. So, yes Maria. I am very concerned about "not being wrong" when I fly. The consequences are too high. The point is: if it IS perfectly proper procedure to fly "angled finals" and report them as "finals," then shouldn't we pilots began to do a little better job of scanning the entire final quadrant vice only checking only the extended centerline? Looking in the AIM I don't see an "angled" final anywhere. I do see a depiction of a rectangular course, with 3 of the legs labeled "downwind, base, final" and a note that says the base to final turn should not overshoot the final course, and that turn should be no closer than 1/4 mile from the runway. So, the normal final course is on or reasonably close to the centerline, with a 0 degree difference between the ground track and the runway heading, regardless of where your aircraft is pointing to deal with wind correction. Thus, for all the provided documentation to make any sense at all, an instruction to complete a 5 mile final would require you to intercept the extended centerline, heading for the runway, at a point 5 or more miles out. |
#84
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"Jim Cummiskey" wrote in message newsoqTc.37452 Geez, Jim, you sure do love to rant! Careful, or you might give someone the idea that I hit a hot button. ...I think the experience metric might be in my favor for the vast majority of the folk on this forum, Doc. Well, you may be right. I don't know. What are you flying, BTW? I don't fly anything right now. .... Instead of INSISTING that your perspective is the only possible conclusion, I never did any such thing. What I was merely pointing out was what various pilots and air carriers have learned over the years - that predictable, standardized procedures go a long way toward stabilizing the safety environment and decreasing the likelihood of accidents. And that disregarding standardized expectations can be inherently dangerous, whether you're technically correct or not. The regs ARE confusing, imprecise, and often contradictory. They need interpretation badly. Absolutely right. What they don't need is hipshot, case-by-case individual interpretation on a daily basis. ... There is no right and wrong. All rules and laws merely offer a set of guidelines to be used as a general model for our behavior. Interesting. Moral relativism in the cockpit. Let me know how it works out. Does it make you NERVOUS that one of your most preciously-held views of the world is being challenged? "Preciously-held views..."? LOL. Nothing in aviation comes close to being any of my most "...preciously-held views..." ...(BTW, how many hours have you logged in the last year, Doc)? Oh, I haven't logged any time in the last few years. I stopped flying a few years ago after about 25 years and about 18000 hours. |
#85
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Jim Cummiskey wrote: As I have attempted to point out numerous times, the real issue is: "Must you be on the extended centerline to be on final?" You believe the answer is "Yes." I belive that the answer is "No." You are wrong. Final is defined as the extended centerline. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. |
#86
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Jim Cummiskey wrote: Frankly, I would be more inclined to believe them in contrast to some of the wannabes who believe access to a digital copy of the FARs and Order 7110.65 is all it takes to interpret the gray areas of aviation. Then you're stupider than you so far have appeared -- and that's saying something. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. |
#87
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"Bill Denton" wrote in message
... Under any circumstances, when flying a straight-in approach VFR, the aircraft should be on the extended runway centerline (obviously flying runway heading) Track. Heading would be different according to the wind. Ahem, sorry, since everyone seems to be nit-picking these days! :-) Paul |
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