Who is responsible?

Who is primarily responsible for my safety?
(choose one)
A. My supervisor
B. My boss
C. My club
D. My FBO
E. Contest Director
F. Contest Manager
G. Rules Committee
H. Soaring Society of America
I. Soaring Safety Foundation
J. FAA
K. NTSB
L. Me

I got to thinking about the safety responsibility issue, so I started
asking a few people. Got several of the above optipns, but the best
one was, "My husband, Jim",

Food for thought,
JJ

On Oct 18, 7:57*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:

but the best one was, "My husband, Jim",

I can say with some certainty that would not have been my answer

Maybe this is really a 2 part question:

1. Who cares most about my safety?
2. Who is responsible for my safety?

The answer may not be the same.

Andy

On Oct 18, 9:23*am, Andy wrote:
On Oct 18, 7:57*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:

but the best one was, "My husband, Jim",

I can say with some certainty that would not have been my answer

Maybe this is really a 2 part question:

1. Who cares most about my safety?
2. Who is responsible for my safety?

The answer may not be the same.

Andy

Years ago I flew Point of the Mountain in Utah, back in my hang
gliding days. There was this hot pilot doing low lever aero and
general hot-dogging it a few hundred feet above launch. The only
"problem" was he was not wearing a helmet. After he top landed a few
of the locals went over to him and politely but firmly let him know
that helmets were required to fly there. He became very indignant and
somewhat verbally abusive to these guys and basically blew them off. I
was standing nearby after the guys walked away, I could hear him
muttering to himself sarcastically about how "nice" it was that
everyone was so concerned about his safety...........and blah blah
blah............anyways.........I do think he put a helmet on before
taking off again, which was a good thing, as before the day was over
he stuffed it in pretty good, taking out his control bar and whacking
his head pretty good.

My point................pretty sure the concern was not for this dudes
personal safety, but more for the preservation of the hang gliding
site.........pilots breaking site protocols are not
tolerated ........we are all free to choose what we want to do wrp to
safety, but when it jeopardizes our fellow pilots or by-standers, that
is another matter entirely.

Brad

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Who is primarily responsible for my safety?

Are you a private pilot, a student pilot, or a passenger?

On Oct 18, 10:57*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Who is primarily responsible for my safety?
* * (choose one)
A. My supervisor
B. My boss
C. My club
D. My FBO
E. Contest Director
F. Contest Manager
G. Rules Committee
H. Soaring Society of America
*I. Soaring Safety Foundation
J. FAA
K. NTSB
L. Me

I got to thinking about the safety responsibility issue, so I started
asking a few people. Got several of the above optipns, but the best
one was, "My husband, Jim",

Food for thought,
JJ

I work at Disney World, FL during the winter and their motto "Safety
Begins With Me" is everywhere and it is the only 'real' answer. Other
people can affect your safety while at a gliderport or contest by
permitting others to operate in an unsafe manner, but it all starts
with you. If the gliderport is operated unsafely, then you need to
find another place to fly.
Fred

"If the gliderport is operated unsafely, then you need to
find another place to fly.
Fred "

Since many of us operate out of club environments, I would argue that
if a gliderport is operated unsafely, it is your responsibility to try
to change that, not to just walk away. Even a commercial operation
that has unsafe, or perceived unsafe practices is worth trying to help
shore up the safety side of things.

As president of a soaring club, I can say for certain that the most
common statement people make is "You should do X for the club..."
Replace X with whatever you feel like. The point being, people tend
to want someone else to take responsibility for initiating change.

If you want the safety culture to change at your club or operation,
find a way to lead that change. That's really taking responsibility
for your own safety and helping out others.

Morgan

as an itinerant renter, I can tell you that every place I have rented -- about 6 leading glider clubs and commercial orgs across the country -- has its own idea of safety.

this is just an abbreviated list of differences:

1. some places have tie downs, some have wing stands, some have nothing
2. some require canopies to be down all the time, other places leave them up all the time
3. some places people have their hands on the canopy all the time, some places you can never touch the canopy
4. some places you open and shut the canopy by the rails, other places you can only operate the canopy by reaching in and using the handle
5. some places you push on the canopy to check secure, other places its verboten, or you are expected to look at the locking pins
6. some places the only thing you do is rudder wag, other places you have a wing runner, other places, you have to call the tow pilot and say "brakes locked, canopy locked, slack out" and then you can wag.
7. everyone has their own tow position they like: hstab centered on the wings, hstab at the top of the wing, hstab on the mirrors, etc. boxing the wake (remember, this is a checkout) is a whole 'nother set of parameters regarding positioning, rudder versus aileron, and whether to pause for 1/2 a second or 2 seconds, or somewhere in between, and everyone likes 'em different
8. everyone has their own favorite set of stall series, MCA, and various banks of turns. for steep turns, it could be the triangle, 50, Va, or some other number
9. on landing, everyone has their own set of IP, downwind distance from the runway ("fly over that road", "1/4 mile", "45 degrees"), base leg distance (at the threshold, 1/2 mile past the threshold, but not too far if you have a large headwind on final)
10. no speedbrakes until on base or final, never more than 1/2 speed brakes, never close the speedbrakes, etc etc
11. before landing checklist -- RUFSTALL, factory placard, this here laminated one
12. base landing speed. triangle, 1.5*Vs0, some random number which is "what we do here"
13. high energy landing or low energy landing
14. roll out straight, roll out straight but if you can move over to side of the runway into the dirt or grass, turn to get off the runway but dont groundloop
15. use the brakes, don't use the brakes, test the brakes when you land but don't use them, test the brakes when you land and use them to stop at a designated point on the runway
16. come to a stop at that intersection so you can push off there, ... stop past the instersection because the towplanes need to use it, ...stop at the staging area
17. get out of the glider when you stop, don't get out of the glider when you stop
18. radio calls -- only on downwind, on the 45, 45/downwind/base/final, depends on how much traffic there is

this is a serious list. i have had every single one of these instructions.

there is absolutely no standardization in what is expected from gliderport to gliderport

on these checkouts, I have become a chameleon, asking lots of questions in order to satisfy the CFI. at the end of the day, when I'm PIC, i do my best to take care of the glider as if it were my own, to stay out of the way of other aircraft, and to operate safely.

--bob

Well said, Bob.
What a frustration and all regarding "standardized" procedures.
This is why flight reviews have been a high stress event for me over all of my flying life. Doesn't matter how I fly it will be incorrect. Such comments as "who taught you THAT!" and "I have NEVER heard/seen/taught/read that" are pretty standard.

Even boxing the wake. Everything Bob said I have experienced PLUS two places where I have been told that "we never do that" because it overstresses the towplane or has no value in demonstrating flying skills.

In the end...I have always successfully completed flight reviews and field check-outs.

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:53:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Well said, Bob.
What a frustration and all regarding "standardized" procedures.
This is why flight reviews have been a high stress event for me over all of my flying life. Doesn't matter how I fly it will be incorrect. Such comments as "who taught you THAT!" and "I have NEVER heard/seen/taught/read that" are pretty standard.

Even boxing the wake. Everything Bob said I have experienced PLUS two places where I have been told that "we never do that" because it overstresses the towplane or has no value in demonstrating flying skills.

In the end...I have always successfully completed flight reviews and field check-outs.


It's probably good to differentiate as much as possible safety considerations from operational procedures from personal preferences.

On Oct 18, 7:57*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Who is primarily responsible for my safety?
* * (choose one)
A. My supervisor
B. My boss
C. My club
D. My FBO
E. Contest Director
F. Contest Manager
G. Rules Committee
H. Soaring Society of America
*I. Soaring Safety Foundation
J. FAA
K. NTSB
L. Me

I got to thinking about the safety responsibility issue, so I started
asking a few people. Got several of the above optipns, but the best
one was, "My husband, Jim",

Food for thought,
JJ

If it's not me I'm abdicating to people who can't possibly make
decisions for me in the moment when they are most needed. Everything
else is advice, much of it good advice, but advice nevertheless. I
recall a thread a couple of years back regarding accidental incursions
into Class A where some advocated for risking the structural integrity
of the airplane (fly over redline, shift focus away from flying to
twiddle with the radio to report in to controllers, etc.) in order to
comply strictly with FARs. That would be making the FAA more
responsible for my safety than I am. I can think of a similar example
for most every answer on JJ's list except the last one.

Was it a trick question?

9B