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#11
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42 knots was no problem on the big "E" It is my understanding that it has the
highest max speed of all carriers due to its longer waterline and narrower beam. The snipes told me the limits are the number of twists they can put into the shafts or the bow being crushed by being forced through the water. I have seen 50+ Alignments. I went from the A-6 were we learned all the manutia of alignments to the Prower were it was pretty much turn it on and it works. First thing is a level then the next is True North since all platform torques are based on that. Remember that the Intruder was a weapons delivery platform so it must derive its position to the nats ass. In the Prowler if it was 1000 feet off no big deal. I used to laugh at the 129 cone heads trying to fix True north since it had to compute TN to milli radians for the allignmet to work. Here he was ham handing a degree or 2. If the platform alligned the TN was going to be correct. On the boat Sins cable was prefered then the RF alignment but the first things that the platform has to do is go to local level then True North then start to factor in the ships movement. In the A-6 we got a software upgrade (85 or so) and if everything worked it was 9 minutes to allign. Sometimes the AT troubleshooter would start the alignment especially if the BN scheduled to fly the plane was a little weak. I recall 20 minutes to be the norm. I think the Prowler was faster. Sparky |
#12
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Gary,
I was intersted to hear that the alignments would go "south" during the catapult stage. Did air alignments work out ok as I realize you were getting lat/long info from another aircraft but can't imagine having the time to carry out the process. In the early 1970s A-6A, inflight alignments of the AN/ASN-31 inertial navigation system were both common and more often than not "reasonably" accurate - at least for providing a stable reference of aircraft heading, attitude, and horizontal and vertical velocities. The A-6A/B/C NATOPS referred to these as "rough alignments". ("Reasonably accurate" = accurate enough to complete the mission successfully.) An inflight alignment of the ASN-31 required true heading (which one got from the magnetic wet compass and then adjusted for local magnetic variation), aircraft velocity and the latitude of the inflight alignment starting point. B/Ns made it a point to write down the ship's current LAT/LONG during shipboard (SINS) alignments, since the cat shot was the most likely flight phase for an inertial dump and the inflight alignment could be started almost immediately after launch. Entering the LONG in addition to the other three parameters above usually produced a fix for the inertial accurate to +/- 3 to 5 miles, depending upon the distance traveled by the ship between SINS alignment and inertial dump. (There was also a fair amount of dead reckoning thrown in here as well, using inputs like ship's estimated course and speed changes since SINS alignment.) In the A-6A, the real keeper of position was the AN/ASQ-61 ballistics / nav computer and not the ASN-31. It obtained its initial reference from the ASN-31's aligned position, and took as inputs throughout the flight the velocities generated by the ASN-31. The ASQ-61 also took inputs from the aircraft's pitot-static system, radars, and the knobology activities of the crew. During the mission the crew would update the ASQ-61's position with fixes off the search radar, or visually if crossing a known position like the CIP. These updates minimized computed position errors. At least that was how it was SUPPOSED to work. g As Woody and others point out things are much different today, especially the need for accurate posit inputs into the smart weapons we didn't have back in the early 1970s. -- Mike Kanze 436 Greenbrier Road Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259 USA 650-726-7890 "When was the last time in world history in which 'suicide' and 'martyrdom' were the code of enlightened action admired by any society?" - Roy Fassel (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 10/27/03) "Gary Watson" cf104@ihate spam.shaw.ca wrote in message news:CHbpb.260660$6C4.185337@pd7tw1no... [rest snipped] |
#13
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#14
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#15
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Two axis VGI, TACAN and ADF, cockpit lighting by afterthought, single
engine, "interesting" dirty flying qualities. A night in the life I'm glad is far behind me. OBTW, T-45 GINA (integrated GPS/INS) has no SINS cable. Uses GPS in the ship alignment mode and must calculate ship's movement null factor (whatever the hell that is). From power-up: Full alignment on concrete = 3 minutes. Full alignment in flight = 6-7 minutes. Full alignment on flight deck = 16-24 minutes. Go figure. R / John "Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ... On 11/3/03 8:27 AM, in article , "Pechs1" wrote: cf- I am conversant with commercial INS and old military INS (LN3) and know that the best alignment occurs when the a/c is stationary. Now my question. How is the INS aligned at sea on a carrier that is moving at 30kts? BRBR geeezzz, INS, GPS....what a bunch of girls.. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer Ouch. Here I thought I was a stud. |:-) |
#16
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We "girls" led more than one little lost lamb of a fighter through the goo.
And gave them gas as well. -- Mike Kanze 436 Greenbrier Road Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259 USA 650-726-7890 "When was the last time in world history in which 'suicide' and 'martyrdom' were the code of enlightened action admired by any society?" - Roy Fassel (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 10/27/03) "Pechs1" wrote in message ... cf- I am conversant with commercial INS and old military INS (LN3) and know that the best alignment occurs when the a/c is stationary. Now my question. How is the INS aligned at sea on a carrier that is moving at 30kts? BRBR geeezzz, INS, GPS....what a bunch of girls.. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#17
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#18
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Boy do I feel old. In the true bomber days of the A-3 we actually
carried a chronometer and a bubble sextant, shot the stars and got a three-point fix. Ditto the sun and LAN local apparent noon. Plus a "potty" of sorts and a working p-tube. Box lunches were in order, 3 or 4 hour cycles were the norm (I even flew once with Charlie James refueling from A-4 tankers for eight hours.) We'd estimate surface winds by checking the sea, and we even did pressure pattern navigation out to Bermuda. What's all this about gyros and other gizmos? (OK, Whidbey started getting ASB-7 c. 1961 while we on the east coast stuck with the modified Norden ASB-1a bombing system.) Joel McEachen VAH-5 (Mushmouths) Mike Kanze wrote: We "girls" led more than one little lost lamb of a fighter through the goo. And gave them gas as well. |
#19
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Old Girls??
Try doing a "must make it" approach into one of our winter wonderland seismic strips on Melville Island NWT (That's just past Resolute Bay for those that don't know the North) with 100 + nuthing in snow using an ****ty DG and a very good set of Eyeballs, or motoring around the Beaufort Sea with ADFs and a very erractic Omega. Of course this wasn't combat as no one except the locals were shooting at us when we were in Alaska flying out of Barrow. (wait a minute isn't that the same thing?) I found a few 30-30 holes in our Aztec so I guess that applies Sum of us old Farts really like using the new stuff after those days GW EX RCAF with 20+ years in the North where men are men and Polar Bears are always hungry "Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ... On 11/3/03 8:27 AM, in article , "Pechs1" wrote: cf- I am conversant with commercial INS and old military INS (LN3) and know that the best alignment occurs when the a/c is stationary. Now my question. How is the INS aligned at sea on a carrier that is moving at 30kts? BRBR geeezzz, INS, GPS....what a bunch of girls.. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer Ouch. Here I thought I was a stud. |:-) |
#20
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"J. McEachen" wrote in message
Boy do I feel old. In the true bomber days of the A-3 we actually carried a chronometer and a bubble sextant, shot the stars and got a three-point fix. Ditto the sun and LAN local apparent noon. Plus a "potty" of sorts and a working p-tube. Box lunches were in order, 3 or 4 hour cycles were the norm (I even flew once with Charlie James refueling from A-4 tankers for eight hours.) We'd estimate surface winds by checking the sea, and we even did pressure pattern navigation out to Bermuda. YOU feel old?!?!?!?!?! Hell, I used to teach the MK6 Plotting Board to S2 types as FASOTRAGRULANT QUONSET & CECIL in '72-'73!!!!! :-) My primary traning film was made during WWII (and that's a No ****; we were ordered to destroy it in 1973 due to references to "Japs" and other politically incorrect language and immagery; we kept using it until the S2 program shut down). What's all this about gyros and other gizmos? (OK, Whidbey started getting ASB-7 c. 1961 while we on the east coast stuck with the modified Norden ASB-1a bombing system.) Joel McEachen VAH-5 (Mushmouths) The good old Stoof had the ASN-30A. It was an electro-mechanical plotter that got fed by a TAS computer, gyro, and doppler radar. The warranty was good for 3 traps and/or arrestments. Then it would give up the ghost and it was back to the ouija board (MK6). And, of course, the polar plotting charts used by the 'Shoes (I can't remember the designation). Trying to do Julie plotting at 100' using dividers with string attached to calculate A+B elipses was interesting work. Bill Kambic If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist, culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist, sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist, phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you to get over it. |
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