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#11
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As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC
time, a landout at a remote airfield is required. The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about 600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and one where I flew from another site back home. I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition. Mike ASW 20 WA |
#12
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In article ,
Judy Ruprecht wrote: At 02:30 06 February 2004, Btiz referenced: FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B), for the purpose of meeting aeronautical experience requirements... Uhm... the cited FAR paragraph actually refers to a cross country definition in the context of 'experience requirements' established for private, commercial or instrument pilot certification in aircraft other than rotorcraft... and there are no cross country requirements established for any level of glider pilot certification. The Part 61 FAQ is mute on this topic, but I believe 61.1(b)(3)(i) is the applicable paragraph and it defines 'Cross country time' as 'time acquired during a flight... - conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate - conducted in an aircraft - that includes a landing at a point other than the airport of departure; and - that involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.' Thus, FAR-wise, a land-out a few miles away from home may involve 'cross country time' in a glider but a successful closed course glider flight of several hundred miles does not appear to be cross country flight time at all! Your insurance company probably has other ideas... Judy It's interesting, however, that the (iv) section requirements for ATP do not require a landing. I don't see why glider flights over 50nm with no distant landing can't be used towards the ATP. In my experience the ATP examiners don't seem to care if the X-C time was in a MEL, SEL or helicopter, so I don't see why they'd poo-poo glider X-C... |
#13
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In article 2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02,
Michael Stringfellow wrote: As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC time, a landout at a remote airfield is required. The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about 600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and one where I flew from another site back home. I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition. Mike ASW 20 WA Michael, If they ever make a glider ATP rating, man, YOU'RE THERE!!! |
#14
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Judy Ruprecht wrote in message news:bvv7p1
but a successful closed course glider flight of several hundred miles does not appear to be cross country flight time at all! It counts as qualifying cross country time for the ATP rating. ATP cross country time does not require a landing at the remote point. (iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight -- (A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft; (B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and (C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems. I asked AFS 600 what was meant by appropriate aircraft, and what were inappropriate aircraft. I was told they had no idea what para (A) meant since there were no inappropriate aircraft and yes, gliders qualified. BTW I was able use 25 hours of glider cross country (flights where I landed more than 50nm from origin) toward the experience required for airplane commercial. Those landout flight finally got some credit and saved me 25 expensive hours in airplanes. Andy |
#15
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"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02...
As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC time, a landout at a remote airfield is required. The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about 600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and one where I flew from another site back home. I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition. Mike ASW 20 WA It's academical! Like we told you, no X-Country flights required for the US Glider license. They do not care yet, even though you could take a Stemme with a glider license for 600 mi nonstop. You can write your miles into that form, who cares, but you could also write "NA". I assumed you were upgrading to an airplane license, "powered" They probably use the same form? Getting into power, they know what they want. AND not a landout but landing at a tower controled airport preferably. On the other hand, the BGA and FAI know exactly what they want, and you can prove it with your logger. DB |
#16
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BTW I was able use 25 hours of glider cross country (flights where I
landed more than 50nm from origin) toward the experience required for airplane commercial. Those landout flight finally got some credit and saved me 25 expensive hours in airplanes. Andy very good Andy... landing out does have it's advantages.. as long as it's more than 50nm away.. For the rest of you.. Commmerical airplane rating requires 50hours of Cross country.. of which only 10 hours has to be in an airplane. BT |
#17
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I disagree that it's purely academic. Firstly, a student glider pilot may
not fly cross county or more than 25 miles from the home field without an endorsement from the instructor. You therefore need to know what cross-country flight is if you are not going to do it! Second, there is a specific space on the FAA 8710 application form for you to fill in "glider cross-country hours". I assume that if the FAA is asking for the information, they have some use for it, even if none is required for a glider license. Third, many of the cross-country requirements for other certificates or ratings specify that they should be done in an aircraft - not airplane. Last time I looked, gliders were still defined as aircraft and cross-country time logged in gliders in accordance with the appropriate FAR can be used. Since gliders are cheaper to operate than airplanes, you can save some money when getting another rating. Some other contributors to this thread have made the point very well. Mike ASW 20 WA "soarski" wrote in message om... "Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:2YOUb.16245$EW.6421@okepread02... As I expected, Judy hit the nail on the head. For FAA purposes, to log XC time, a landout at a remote airfield is required. The accepted definition in the soaring community is any flight out of gliding range of the home field. I certainly know when I'm cross-country when all I can see is rocks and cactus. Under this definition, I have about 600 hours, but under the FAAs I can only count my handful of landouts and one where I flew from another site back home. I still wonder whether bodies like the BGA or FAI have a written definition. Mike ASW 20 WA It's academical! Like we told you, no X-Country flights required for the US Glider license. They do not care yet, even though you could take a Stemme with a glider license for 600 mi nonstop. You can write your miles into that form, who cares, but you could also write "NA". I assumed you were upgrading to an airplane license, "powered" They probably use the same form? Getting into power, they know what they want. AND not a landout but landing at a tower controled airport preferably. On the other hand, the BGA and FAI know exactly what they want, and you can prove it with your logger. DB |
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