What percentage have a power pilot license?

wrote:
Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
- then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?


I have both: I started with power at the age of twenty-two, courtesy of
the USAF, but only got around to flying sailplanes when I retired at age
sixty from a major airline.

My personal recommendation is to start with the glider, even though I
did not do it that way. However, no single progression track will suit
everyone. The proper direction for you may become more clear if you
examine the different kinds of flying, and how they relate to soaring.
Talk to pilots with different backgrounds and perspectives, as you are
doing here to some extent.

As a former part-owner of a Decathlon and a Cessna 182, I can understand
why the average light plane pilot might become bored with the $100
hamburger routine after a few years -- beside the fact that it gets
expensive. Here, the situations that teach you the most lasting lessons
about flying are ones you are wisely advised to avoid, or else you
rarely get to fly with someone who can mentor you constructively over a
long period of time, and your progress stagnates. Flying under these
conditions can easily become repetitive and uninteresting.

Flying a 757 brings all the benes (at least it used to) plus the
hamburgers are served in much better surroundings, and you can get out
of Detroit in January on somebody else's dime. You'd be nuts to turn it
down, but it's not where you start.

Less surprisingly than might be assumed, the type of flying which has
seemed to me most closely related to flying modern sailplanes is flying
fighter aircraft (bear with me for a moment). Probably because in each
type one is almost continuously concerned with gaining maximum
performance from the aircraft in all phases of flight -- because of the
mission, and because that's just the way fighter pilots are wired. The
craft is designed and constructed for a demanding purpose with as few
compromises as possible, and it fits you pretty closely. The visibility
is excellent in both, and you have a purpose for being there beyond just
taking off from point "A", navigating to point "B", and landing without
breaking anything, even when you aren't actually fighting, or sailplane
racing. Energy conservation, application, and mental focus are essential
to survival/success. Unless one starts by flying light planes in Alaska
or in some other hostile environment where putting the airplane to work
-- using it as a tool, more than a toy -- is the name of the game, one
is unlikely to find the same kind of absorption in aviation -- at least
for very long.

When the seed is first planted in gliders (as it was with so many of
Germany's WW2-era LuftWaffe pilots, and is true today of some USAF
Academy Cadets) you can be born into the very heart and soul of flight,
grow without distractions in understanding and respect for flight itself
and for others who share the passion and the knowledge. It's the
shortest way home, if the sky is that place for you.

If you later decide you want to add fuel to the fire, you can do that --
and you'll have one hell of a head start. After that, become a tow pilot
and an instructor, and help nourish a new generation.


Jack

Helicopter, military definition: A mass of fatigued metal, rotating around
an oil leak.

bumper

"Roger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
and stopping for a skinny dip : )

On Oct 31, 1:34 pm, "fcnorton" wrote:
Hi Victor,

Power Pilot since Dec-1976 (ASEL/Ins)
Glider Pilot since May-2006
VERY Happy 304CZ Owner since July-2006

Nothing has ever pegged my "fun meter" like soaring. It is honestly
the most challenging flying that I have ever done....and the most
rewarding.

IMHO: Get your glider license first and then power - I believe you will
be a better over all pilot.

Just my 2 cents.

FC Norton

wrote:
Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
- then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

cheers, Victor

Roger wrote:
Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
and stopping for a skinny dip : )


Definitely a entertaining and challenging experience! Enjoyed the heck
out of my first lesson, but at almost $400 an hour for an R-22, it's
damn expensive. That's 16 tows per hour.

Gary Emerson schrieb:

Definitely a entertaining and challenging experience! Enjoyed the heck
out of my first lesson, but at almost $400 an hour for an R-22, it's
damn expensive. That's 16 tows per hour.

Regarding cost, there's a simple equation: One year of soaring equals
one day in a power plane equals one hour in a helicopter.

Roger wrote:
Ever try flying a helicopter? I truly have not had the fun meter
pegged as far to the right by anything else, including gliders!
Imagine lanidng on a rock in a river as that is the only landing spot
and stopping for a skinny dip : )


I'm told the most appropriate use for a helicopter is scouting out
remote landing places for a glider, and retrieving a glider when it uses
one of those remote fields. That requires a larger, more expensive one
than the one used for field scouting, as it must safely lift a loaded
trailer.

I do know of a couple glider pilots that also own a helicopter. Not a
common combination.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Victor,

I hope this discussion helps, but fear its heavily weighted towards
getting the glider rating first, then the powered rating. All I can
share is my experience, do with it as please. I would encourage you to
pick either avenue, flying is the most satisfying activity I do.

My experience: I am a glider pilot with my powered add ons.
Commercial Glider, Commercial SE Land, ATP ME Land, Instrument
Airplane, CFI, CFII, CFIG - 1900 hours (200 in gliders.) I started
flying gliders the summer after high school, then added my powered
ratings in college. I fly for a career - so I am a little more willing
to spend the money to gain hours and experience.

Couple of things I learned along the way: 1. The glider first,
followed by the powered rating means you'll have to take two FAA
written exams - that's an extra $75-$100 depending on the testing
center. Second - although you piloting skills will be better, you will
still probably spend the minimum 40 hrs in a powered airplane to get
the rating - you probaby won't see the benefit of the glider experience
translate to lowered costs for the powered.

I fly powered aircraft for my career, and I use GA airplanes to travel
across the country. I fly 200+ hours a year, mostly all powered. I am
finnally able to afford a sailplane of my own and am shopping for one
right now. I plan to fly more gliders in the coming years, contests
and XC, but I will still fly powered airplanes as an instructor,
professional pilot, and to travel.

I think one aspect that has been overlooked is ths soaring season.
Your are at the end of it, which means lots of sled rides with very
little opportunity to SOAR! That's the biggest factor in hooking
pilots to gliders - the 1, 2, 3 hour soaring flights that are possible
May through September in most of the country. That being said, night
arrives sooner and this can limit the amount of time available for the
powered training. But, I beleive that the powered flying will
progress more quickly than the glider flying, unless you fly at a
commercial glider operation that runs year round.

Don't forget to find an instructor that fits your personality and can
adapt to your learning style. That relationship is the single most
important to completing your ratings, no matter which you choose first.


Good luck and Happy Landings,
Andrew

My suggestion if you have a soaring operation close by that will allow
you to fly reasonably often with reasonable expense then do the glider
1st.

If you have to travel or availabity or cost are issues then I would
recommend at least going up to Solo in a power airplane. You can learn
a lot a lot of basics of a flying in a few hours of power instruction
and power instruction is typically easier to locate and schedule. If
you can find one, find an instructor that teaches both glider and power
(rather hard to find I suspect). At the very least let your instructor
know what you are planning, they can help taylor your instuction to
your goals.

Having the skills to solo a power airplane will greatly accelerate your
progress in the glider. However if the glider/instructor/towplane and
tow pilots are all readly available and reasonably priced then go
glider only.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
HP16T
Boise, ID

"COLIN LAMB" wrote in message
.net...
......
One problem with a power plane rating is that the glider club will try to
suck you into being a tow pilot.

They say that tow pilot is the only usefull power pilot, others just spoil
fuel.

When I took my practical test for Private Pilot Glider, the FAA examiner
said "I wish they would teach everyone to fly gliders before power. You
learn so much more about energy management in gliders."

Roger

" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all, I decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and start
flying. I thought about going straight for a private glider license.
But, I do have the option of going for the powered pilot license first
- then the glider license second. Any thoughts? How many here have
both? Did you get your powered pilot license first?

cheers, Victor

All that stuff you learned flying RC will help you learn to fly the
"full-scale". In some ways it's easier, because of the immediate feedback of
feeling what the aircraft is doing. Plus you don't have to reverse your
thinking when you fly back toward the field. ;-)

" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys thanks a bunch for the comments and your experiences! Really
appreciated.

I'm going to call up the Puget Sound Soaring Association to see if they
are flying this weekend. Assuming it doesn't rain! they operate at
Bergseth Airfield in Enumclaw, WA. Only about an hour from Seattle
where I'm at.

I used to fly scale RC sailplanes decades ago. Had a Glasflugel 604
with a 12ft wingspan, custom winglets, flaps and modified airfoil cross
section. Time to do it for real.

Victor