Use of drag chutes

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 9:46:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I tried to use the tail chute twice in my H-301 Libelle. First time was during an off field landing, I pulled the chute and stuffed the nose down...........next thing I knew I was scooting through the weeds doing 80. The chute hadn't deployed! Next time I gave it a try was a landing at Winnemucca, Nv. I popped the chute on down-wind and soon found I was going to be way short, so I pulled the jettison handle..............you guessed it, it didn't jettison! I made the runway, but was a half mile from my desired stopping point. The chute worked fine on the ground, before and after both incidents. My conclusion, unreliable and not necessary in a ship that had landing flaps and dive brakes.
FWIW,
JJ

JJ - I object to your comment 'unreliable and not necessary'! Tail-chutes become unreliable if they are being neglected, i.e. hardly used, never allowed to dry/air out and if the operating mechanisms are not maintained! I flew an Open Cirrus and a H101 Salto with chutes and never had any malfunctions of any kind. I wished my H301 had one but the first owner didn't order it from the factory.
Uli
AS

On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 11:03:32 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
Have done a bunch of landings with the tail chute in my 301 Libelle. Deploy on high downwind abeam intended touchdown point. Requires quite the nose down attitude to maintain airspeed. Modulate glide path with divebrakes. Be ready to jettison if coming up short. Yep, it's fun.

I would recommend against this approach. If you are coming up short you would need to successfully release the drag chute... Perhaps not the best thing in a high stress situation. I only deploy on final and when I am certain to make the runway.

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 9:46:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I tried to use the tail chute twice in my H-301 Libelle. First time was during an off field landing, I pulled the chute and stuffed the nose down...........next thing I knew I was scooting through the weeds doing 80. The chute hadn't deployed! Next time I gave it a try was a landing at Winnemucca, Nv. I popped the chute on down-wind and soon found I was going to be way short, so I pulled the jettison handle..............you guessed it, it didn't jettison! I made the runway, but was a half mile from my desired stopping point. The chute worked fine on the ground, before and after both incidents. My conclusion, unreliable and not necessary in a ship that had landing flaps and dive brakes.
FWIW,
JJ

One can feel the chute deploying before it is fully effective and have several seconds to lower the nose as this is going on. Keep a few knots extra airspeed and you have no need to push the nose down prior to confirmation of deployment.

After Wil Schuemann bought an ASW 12 (no dive brakes), he set about determining why the drag chute didn't always deploy. He mounted a high-speed film camera and aimed it at the rudder. IIRC, if the rear of the lower rudder housing in which the chute was stored dropped down first, it fell away from the rudder and the chute deployed normally. Sometimes the front of the housing dropped slightly first, jamming the whole assembly. Or maybe it was vice versa. Anyway, he made some modifications that helped insure it dropped the same way every time. Then he added a second drag chute that deployed from the belly. Watching him land using the two chutes was pretty inspiring.

Chip Bearden

'Chutes have a lot of failure modes and none of them are easier to handle closer to the ground.

We agree that one should only deploy the chute when certain of making the field. That's just common sense. Oldtimers with much experience taught me to deploy the 'chute while still high enough to have options in case it failed in some way. Deploying the 'chute on short final, when one has relatively few options, seems less sensible. Better to deploy it high when one has the altitude to adjust the pattern or sort out problems. Actually, jettisoning the 'chute is for when one encounters unexpected severe sink or headwind (or one has done a really poor job of planning the pattern) or when the chute only partially opens (might suddenly decide to fully inflate at just the wrong moment).

I've made somewhere upwards of 30 off-airfield landings in my 301, at least 20 of them with the tail 'chute. I have never had to jettison it.

The truth is, I never really needed the 'chute in any of those landings. The divebrakes, coupled with judicious use of slipping are perfectly adequate to bring a Libelle into a short field.

Speaking of 'chute failures, I have always been concerned about having an uncommanded dragchute deployment during tow. Very worrisome for me and the tug pilot.

I have had the 'chute deploy uncommanded while thermalling in a gaggle at a contest. Took me a few seconds to decide what to do about the situation. Should I jettison the 'chute, keep my altitude, and fly the task? Should I head for the airfield and jettison the 'chute closer to the field? Should I just land out with the 'chute attached and not lose the expensive chute and shoe? All the while, I am still going around the thermal, well below everyone else and sinking. Some joker gets on the radio and says "Hey, WB. Call the CD and ask what your handicap is with the 'chute out". Eventually, I decided I had enough altitude to tow the 'chute home and did that. Landed, removed the 'chute, duct taped the shoe, and took a relight to get back in the race.

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 8:46:34 AM UTC-6, wrote:
I tried to use the tail chute twice in my H-301 Libelle. First time was during an off field landing, I pulled the chute and stuffed the nose down...........next thing I knew I was scooting through the weeds doing 80. The chute hadn't deployed! Next time I gave it a try was a landing at Winnemucca, Nv. I popped the chute on down-wind and soon found I was going to be way short, so I pulled the jettison handle..............you guessed it, it didn't jettison! I made the runway, but was a half mile from my desired stopping point. The chute worked fine on the ground, before and after both incidents. My conclusion, unreliable and not necessary in a ship that had landing flaps and dive brakes.
FWIW,
JJ

Hi JJ,

You gave me the tailchute out of your Libelle. I subsequently passed it on to Bert Compton.

WB
H301 #19

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 11:58:28 AM UTC-6, AS wrote:
On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 9:46:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I tried to use the tail chute twice in my H-301 Libelle. First time was during an off field landing, I pulled the chute and stuffed the nose down...........next thing I knew I was scooting through the weeds doing 80. The chute hadn't deployed! Next time I gave it a try was a landing at Winnemucca, Nv. I popped the chute on down-wind and soon found I was going to be way short, so I pulled the jettison handle..............you guessed it, it didn't jettison! I made the runway, but was a half mile from my desired stopping point. The chute worked fine on the ground, before and after both incidents. My conclusion, unreliable and not necessary in a ship that had landing flaps and dive brakes.
FWIW,
JJ

JJ - I object to your comment 'unreliable and not necessary'! Tail-chutes become unreliable if they are being neglected, i.e. hardly used, never allowed to dry/air out and if the operating mechanisms are not maintained! I flew an Open Cirrus and a H101 Salto with chutes and never had any malfunctions of any kind. I wished my H301 had one but the first owner didn't order it from the factory.
Uli
AS

Hi Uli,

I have found my tailchute to be very reliable. Only two failures in many deployment, both due to my own negligence. I had an uncommanded in-flight deployment due to my inadvertently pulling on the lanyard when removing the instrument panel and forgetting to recheck the security of the shoe during the pre-flight inspection. Luckily, it deployed after I got off tow and was at altitude. Could have been bad on tow. The other was a failure of the 'chute to inflate completely. I had packed it badly and it just came out in a ball and stayed that way. Kept the pattern close in and carried a little extra speed into the flair in case the darned thing decided to open fully.

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 9:29:20 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
The accidents in Namibia which totaled gliders and claimed a life deserve more respect than that offered by our friend "Fred Drift".
Hey, it's fun to land with a drag chute. I regret never trying ASW17B 15 meter drag chute landings. At 20m it was huge fun.
Jim

One vintage glider, Polish, I think, had a dragchute that could be modulated like divebrakes. Reeling it in partially closed the chute while reeling it out allowed it to open more. Reasonably clever solution to a non-problem.