Notes from a Small Island - 1015K in UK.

Hm,I just started using gliderpilot.net instead of google
to view RAS.Looks like it strips all line breaks and decided to
post my message more than once.-Tom
Tom Serkowski
ASH-26E

To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com'

No speculation.

After such a long flight, having been cooled by the high altitude the chances
that the battery would be able to crank the pylon up is remote. (It should be at
full nominal charge as it is charged in flight by a generator)
If it did extend, the chances that there would be enough power available spin a
two stroke engine at well below freezing point, fast enough to start is even
more remote.
Then you have fuel that may have gelled at low temperature, and the probability
of carburettor icing.

I don't think there is much speculation. The chances of starting your engine
under these circumstances must be almost zero.

Bruce

Alan Irving wrote:
Speculation on whose part? I'm merely reporting what
Ohlmann himself said. Perhaps he was speculating that
the engine wouldn't start after spending 15 hours at
sub zero temperatures - do you actually think it would?

Seeing how meticulous he was in all other facets of
his preparation, I imagine he might have tried the
motor during a local flight to confirm that it wouldn't
start. But that's just speculation...

At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:

That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificent
flight is not the same as one without an engine.

Are you saying that in all of Klaus's previous practise
flights at these heights he never started the engine
to get home because the flight 'wasn't on'? I think
not.

Andy Henderson

At 14:18 28 June 2004, Alan Irving wrote:

When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record
flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe
he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the
engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start.
Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight
had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement
is no less valid.

To play devils advocate for a moment .....

No one is going to start the engine at 20000' and minus 25 degrees C. Its
started at 2000' agl and in Argentina the temperature may be 30 degrees or
more at that altitude. I'll give you that it might take a while for the
engine to warm up to that temperature but would a pilot fly all the way down
without starting to employ energy/height saving measures

Generally two stroke engines don't have crankcases full of oil, lubrication
being acheived by the fuel oil mixture.

If it's a turbo it doesn't need cranking, it windmill starts and the
ignition is magneto's - no battery needed.

The Stemme uses a 4 stroke powerplant I think.

Ian

"Bruce Greeff" wrote in message
...
No speculation.

After such a long flight, having been cooled by the high altitude the
chances
that the battery would be able to crank the pylon up is remote. (It should
be at
full nominal charge as it is charged in flight by a generator)
If it did extend, the chances that there would be enough power available
spin a
two stroke engine at well below freezing point, fast enough to start is
even
more remote.
Then you have fuel that may have gelled at low temperature, and the
probability
of carburettor icing.

I don't think there is much speculation. The chances of starting your
engine
under these circumstances must be almost zero.

Bruce

Alan Irving wrote:
Speculation on whose part? I'm merely reporting what
Ohlmann himself said. Perhaps he was speculating that
the engine wouldn't start after spending 15 hours at
sub zero temperatures - do you actually think it would?

Seeing how meticulous he was in all other facets of
his preparation, I imagine he might have tried the
motor during a local flight to confirm that it wouldn't
start. But that's just speculation...

At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:

That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificent
flight is not the same as one without an engine.

Are you saying that in all of Klaus's previous practise
flights at these heights he never started the engine
to get home because the flight 'wasn't on'? I think
not.

Andy Henderson

At 14:18 28 June 2004, Alan Irving wrote:

When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record
flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe
he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the
engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start.
Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight
had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement
is no less valid.

tango4 wrote:
To play devils advocate for a moment .....

No one is going to start the engine at 20000' and minus 25 degrees C. Its
started at 2000' agl and in Argentina the temperature may be 30 degrees or
more at that altitude. I'll give you that it might take a while for the
engine to warm up to that temperature but would a pilot fly all the way down
without starting to employ energy/height saving measures

Generally two stroke engines don't have crankcases full of oil, lubrication
being acheived by the fuel oil mixture.

If it's a turbo it doesn't need cranking, it windmill starts and the
ignition is magneto's - no battery needed.

The Stemme uses a 4 stroke powerplant I think.

Ian

"Bruce Greeff" wrote in message
...

No speculation.

After such a long flight, having been cooled by the high altitude the

chances

that the battery would be able to crank the pylon up is remote. (It should

be at

full nominal charge as it is charged in flight by a generator)
If it did extend, the chances that there would be enough power available

spin a

two stroke engine at well below freezing point, fast enough to start is

even

more remote.
Then you have fuel that may have gelled at low temperature, and the

probability

of carburettor icing.

I don't think there is much speculation. The chances of starting your

engine

under these circumstances must be almost zero.

Bruce

Alan Irving wrote:

Speculation on whose part? I'm merely reporting what
Ohlmann himself said. Perhaps he was speculating that
the engine wouldn't start after spending 15 hours at
sub zero temperatures - do you actually think it would?

Seeing how meticulous he was in all other facets of
his preparation, I imagine he might have tried the
motor during a local flight to confirm that it wouldn't
start. But that's just speculation...

At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:


That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificent
flight is not the same as one without an engine.

Are you saying that in all of Klaus's previous practise
flights at these heights he never started the engine
to get home because the flight 'wasn't on'? I think
not.

Andy Henderson

At 14:18 28 June 2004, Alan Irving wrote:


When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record
flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe
he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the
engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start.
Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight
had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement
is no less valid.








Hi Ian

Comment based on information provided by Stemmme among others, where they
commented that they had to leave the engine overnight to warm up before it was
warm enough to start without fear of damage. This on some of the record flights
they were involved in.
Similarly any oil has a temperature range in which it works as specified. After
a good long cold soak, I doubt the short descent to 2000 AGL will significantly
warm the engine or the fuel/oil mix. Not only because of time, but because much
of the ground in the Andes is well over 10,000 MSL, so you are unlikely to be
getting the balmy plains temperatures when you are in trouble in the mountains.
Look at some of the videos, they show snow as far as the eye can see, in most
directions for much of the flight.

The Solo used in the Nimbus is not a turbo, so needs battery power to start.
The first obstacle is probably enough to make the starting issue moot. Very cold
batteries simply do not deliver much power. I doubt you could get the jackscrew
to crank the pylon up...

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that a Bocian held one of the
world women's two-seater records before they were abolished? Free
distance, perhaps?

Ian


What!! Women have been abolished???
--
Mike Lindsay

Hm,I just started using gliderpilot.net instead of google
to view RAS.Looks like it strips all line breaks and decided to
post my message more than once.-Tom
Tom Serkowski
ASH-26E

To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com'

tango4 wrote:

If it's a turbo it doesn't need cranking, it windmill starts and the
ignition is magneto's - no battery needed.

I'd be interested in the windmill start procedure for a Stemme.

....and with NO battery?

Graeme Cant

In article ,
says...
Hm,I just started using gliderpilot.net instead of google
to view RAS.Looks like it strips all line breaks and decided to
post my message more than once.-Tom

Tom - maybe it's time to use a real newsreader. Tom - maybe it's time to use a real newsreader. Tom - maybe it's time to use a real newsreader.

--
--
Change "netto" to "net" to reply directly
Eric Greenwell USA

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:29:23 +1000, Graeme Cant
wrote:

tango4 wrote:

If it's a turbo it doesn't need cranking, it windmill starts and the
ignition is magneto's - no battery needed.

I'd be interested in the windmill start procedure for a Stemme.

...and with NO battery?

Don't forget all the bits that slide and open, like the nose cone and
vents, before you can start a Stemme. Cold-soak all that grease for a
few hours and then I bet you'd struggle to expose the prop and open
the air intakes, let alone get a start.

Just a thought.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:02:30 UTC, Mike Lindsay
wrote:

: Incidentally, am I right in thinking that a Bocian held one of the
: world women's two-seater records before they were abolished? Free
: distance, perhaps?

: What!! Women have been abolished???

No, silly. Bocians.

Ian

--