If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
Hello everyone.
Two months ago I flew VFR into Memphis. This was my first time landing at the primary airport of a Class B. From about 30 miles out, the approach controller was providing vectors and altitudes to maintain. I was told to expect runway 27. About seven miles southeast of the airport I was told to "descend at my discretion." I was not lined up with the runway at this point, and was not sure if he meant I was just limited to descending or should intercept the extended centerline. I asked him if I was "cleared for the visual" and he replied that "cleared for the visual" was an IFR clearance and I was not IFR. He repeated that I was cleared to "descend at my discretion." I figured this meant line up and land on 27. I did that and was handed off to the tower. At most other towered airports I have been to, the controller always says something like "enter a 3 mile base for 27" or "report a 3 mile final for 27" or something to that effect. I was expecting the same at Memphis. My question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase "descend at your discretion." Thanks for your thoughts. Matt |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Matt" wrote in message
. net... Hello everyone. Two months ago I flew VFR into Memphis. This was my first time landing at the primary airport of a Class B. From about 30 miles out, the approach controller was providing vectors and altitudes to maintain. I was told to expect runway 27. About seven miles southeast of the airport I was told to "descend at my discretion." I was not lined up with the runway at this point, and was not sure if he meant I was just limited to descending or should intercept the extended centerline. I asked him if I was "cleared for the visual" and he replied that "cleared for the visual" was an IFR clearance and I was not IFR. He repeated that I was cleared to "descend at my discretion." I figured this meant line up and land on 27. I did that and was handed off to the tower. At most other towered airports I have been to, the controller always says something like "enter a 3 mile base for 27" or "report a 3 mile final for 27" or something to that effect. I was expecting the same at Memphis. My question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase "descend at your discretion." Thanks for your thoughts. Matt You said your were southeast. Lining up 7 miles out sounds like several miles of going out of your way. No sense doing a 3 mile base to a 7 mile final. In my plane, 7 miles would give other people time to get in before I got there. Without a specific instruction to line up, I would have continued on a direct line for the airport until I could do a base for short final. -- ------------------------------- Travis Lake N3094P PWK |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message You said your were southeast. Lining up 7 miles out sounds like several miles of going out of your way. No sense doing a 3 mile base to a 7 mile final. In my plane, 7 miles would give other people time to get in before I got there. Without a specific instruction to line up, I would have continued on a direct line for the airport until I could do a base for short final. I mentioned the base and final just as examples of my experiences at other towered airports. The point is that I did not interpret "descend at your discretion" to mean "do whatever you want." |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Matt" wrote in message . net... I mentioned the base and final just as examples of my experiences at other towered airports. The point is that I did not interpret "descend at your discretion" to mean "do whatever you want." Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route? |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route? Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Matt" wrote in message . net... Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach. Perfectly acceptable in Class B airspace. If you were never told to proceed to the field or resume your own navigation or anything else like that you just hold the last assigned heading. "Descend at your discretion" would cancel any previously assigned altitude, but not the heading. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote Perfectly acceptable in Class B airspace. If you were never told to proceed to the field or resume your own navigation or anything else like that you just hold the last assigned heading. "Descend at your discretion" would cancel any previously assigned altitude, but not the heading. That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received from the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to descend at my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being specifically told to do so by the approach controller or the tower controller. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
Matt wrote:
That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received from the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to descend at my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being specifically told to do so by the approach controller or the tower controller. I would have asked. You don't want to play around in Class B. When flying (san francisco) Bay tours, sometimes SFO tour routes you over midfield when a heavy is departing runway 28. Sometimes they just say 'cross over midfield' or give a heading without a typical IFR "turn right heading XXX *to intercept Victor YYY." I know that after I cross midfield they'll tell me to intercept the 101 freeway but I always ask just in case there are 2 heavies taking off." Always ask because you could be in for a rude awakening. Gerald |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
On Feb 17, 3:15 pm, "Matt" wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote Perfectly acceptable in Class B airspace. If you were never told to proceed to the field or resume your own navigation or anything else like that you just hold the last assigned heading. "Descend at your discretion" would cancel any previously assigned altitude, but not the heading. That is my understanding as well. But the last instruction I received from the approach controller before being handed to the tower was to descend at my discretion. I decided to turn onto final without ever being specifically told to do so by the approach controller or the tower controller. If the last instruction did not include a heading, you are still bound by the heading that was assigned to you on a previous instruction. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
VFR terminology in Class B
In article ,
"Matt" wrote: "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route? Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach. If the guy says, "Fly heading 180, maintain 2000", and then sometime later says, "descend at your discretion", that says to me you're still on an assigned heading of 180 while you're descending. If you suspect that doesn't make sense, you could ask, "Do you still need me on 180?". Presumably that would elicit something like, "Heading and altitude your discretion", which can be roughly translated as "Stop bothering me and get yourself to the runway". |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
terminology questions: turtledeck? cantilever wing? | Ric | Home Built | 2 | September 13th 05 09:39 PM |
Pressure Altitude and Terminology | Icebound | Piloting | 0 | November 27th 04 09:14 PM |
New Aviation Terminology | DeltaDeltaDelta | Piloting | 45 | December 4th 03 08:31 AM |
Humour: CO DATA PAGE TERMINOLOGY CAT:BTN SUB:DES PGE:TRM | Dave Kearton | Military Aviation | 0 | September 24th 03 10:38 AM |
Terminology of New WAAS, VNAV, LPV approach types | Tarver Engineering | Instrument Flight Rules | 2 | August 5th 03 03:50 AM |