Flying in the USA vs. Europe

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
Jay Honeck wrote:

That is so frustrating. We want to show our kids our European roots,
but the thought of riding a train -- even a very nice train -- just
isn't as appealing as flying a light plane. I just don't see any way
to ever be able to afford it.

well, you might compromise a bit; trains to actually go places (remember
that i) shorter distances and higher density of population make it
quite a practical mode of transportation more often than not faster than
flying the airlines -- and without the hassle; and ii) trains in Europe
go reasonably fast; and iii) you might be able to buy passes
in USA providing you with significant discounts); and flying a light
plane in places that are not completely GA hostile, e.g., in UK where you
can rent/fly a G- registered aircraft with your FAA certificate, no
extra paperwork;

Some of the other countries will require a licence validation and generally
to fly a locally registered aircraft with the FAA certificate, it is
normally restricted to day VFR only.

However you have full privileges when you fly an N reg (if you can rent one)
but the price would make your eyes water.

For getting around Europe public transport and the trains are by far the
most effective and cheap way and that can be backed up with car hire.

Travelling by light aircraft isolates you from most of the experience of
being in Europe namely the people, the sights etc and if you took a rental
plane from London to Milan and had to leave it there because of weather then
you would be sorry.

There are certain things that are expensive here relatively but then the
European salaries compensate. It is too bad the dollar is such a lush at the
moment.

In August 2001 when I was in Las Vegas the rate of exchange was $1.30 to £1.
In Jan when on vacation in Florida it was $1.98 to £1.
I had a job spending it all and ended up bring a fair bit back. The same has
happened with the Euro.

Jay Honeck wrote:

*snip*

Just for fun, I have overlaid the flight plan we're currently enjoying
on a map of Europe. The results are stunning, to me, as for the same
expenditure of time we could easily have flown the following route in
Europe:

London, United Kingdom (completely over-flying Germany) to Vienna,
Austria
Vienna, Austria to Milan, Italy
Milan, Italy to Madrid, Spain

During this flight we would have overflown nine (or more) countries,
with all the complications inherent with that task, covering much of
Europe. By comparison, this flight in America has barely scratched
the Eastern Seaboard.

Jay,

What a great idea to try..and very interesting results.

And yeah it would be interesting to know what that equivalent European
flight would entail.

Gregg

Granted, the Thielert has fewer horsepower than you're accustomed to, but
fuel cost should be somewhere around $4/gallon.

Really? Jet-A fuel is only (never thought I'd say THAT) $4 per gallon
in Europe?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

What a great idea to try..and very interesting results.

Someday...maybe. From Borchert's descriptions, it sounds like flying
in Europe is what flying in America would be like if ATC were run by
the Iowa Division of Motor Vehicles...

;-)

(Having just paid $900 to the DMV for another one of those stupid blue
"Lodging" signs out on the freeway, I feel qualified to comment on
what a rip-off that department is. But I digress...)

We just got home. The tale of the tape: 2008 miles, covering 15 (of
the 48) mainland United States.

Actually, we got routed around the (very active) Lindbergh MOA in
Missouri, so add another 50 miles to that total...!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
I have traveled in Europe
and Asia, and you can spot an American easily because they are the
ones who insist on speaking English...

actually English is the universal language...at least for now in Europe
and South America. Even in the depths of Russia (KUF) many people, but
far from a lot, spoke English. Strangely, I just saw one of our
customers I met in Russia in Las Vegas at my company's training center.
Small world.

gerald

Jay Honeck wrote:
That is so frustrating. We want to show our kids our European roots,
but the thought of riding a train -- even a very nice train -- just
isn't as appealing as flying a light plane. I just don't see any way
to ever be able to afford it.

The public transportation found in Europe is dreadfully missing in the
US. Most of that is caused by the much larger geography outside of
major cities. Even major cities like Los Angeles, is horrendous with
virtually no public transportation. Back to Europe, in 'northern'
europe (anything north of Austria roughly) has greatly trains. the
south has good trains but tend to be more unreliable. In general, the
south, just like in the US, are more laid back so schedules aren't so
closely adhered to. Nonetheless, still great. Trains are absolutely the
best way to go.

when I lived in Munich, I went up with a friend of a friend. Had a
beautiful flight from Augsburg to Rosenheim to Salzburg. The flying was
nice but his piloting was HORRENDOUS including busting the MUC class B
because he got completely lost even with a G430. At the time I had
solo'd and then moved there 2 days later only to finish a couple of
years later. A couple of years later my friend went up with this guy
again and had a "very scary" experience in the pattern. Doesn't
surprise me.

Gerald

The flying was
nice but his piloting was HORRENDOUS including busting the MUC class B
because he got completely lost even with a G430.


How *can* you get lost with a Garmin 430? Or any GPS, for that
matter?

It would take a concerted effort to get lost with a moving-map in the
panel...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
How *can* you get lost with a Garmin 430? Or any GPS, for that
matter?

It would take a concerted effort to get lost with a moving-map in the
panel...

He also didnt' want to check the fuel after fueling up as someone else
just brought the club plane back. He also couldn't find his checklist.
Fortunately he found it during the run up. Not sure if he used it...at
least from my 18 hours of training at the time he got most of the
important GUMPS stuff. From the back seat, I saw some trees wiz by our
wings, I saw how low we were going into Rosenheim. And his radio calls
going into Salzburg (he had no idea where he was). And the radio calls
coming out of Salburg. And then when flying from Salzburg back to
Augsburg ATC said "Cessna xxxxx, if you are flying to Augsburg, you
might want to make a right 90 degree turn." And worst of all, he
smelled bad. Real bad.

the time my friend got scared with him, he was flying over the Alps with
about 600 lbs of people plus fuel so they were probably close to MGTOW
in a 180 hp 172SP up around 10000 feet during the summer. That doesn't
leave much room for error.

Yup, just scary.

Gerald

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
What a great idea to try..and very interesting results.

Someday...maybe. From Borchert's descriptions, it sounds like flying
in Europe is what flying in America would be like if ATC were run by
the Iowa Division of Motor Vehicles...

;-)

(Having just paid $900 to the DMV for another one of those stupid blue
"Lodging" signs out on the freeway, I feel qualified to comment on
what a rip-off that department is. But I digress...)

We just got home. The tale of the tape: 2008 miles, covering 15 (of
the 48) mainland United States.

Actually, we got routed around the (very active) Lindbergh MOA in
Missouri, so add another 50 miles to that total...!


Be ready to weep for me then.
I just got did my FAA IR currency with a couple of approaches to Cambridge
UK. Three times round the hold, an NDB approach and miss followed by
another hold and an ILS approach with a full stop landing cost me £47 or $92
inc tax. The landing itself cost $39 and was "discounted" as an incentive
to use the airport for approaches.

In another two months I will have to go through the same again to remain
current. Mind you I might drop of to Calais in France where its cheaper at
the airport but its an 80 minutes flying away so by the time you have been
there and back over the Channel its has cost the same.

Be ready to weep for me then.
I just got did my FAA IR currency with a couple of approaches to Cambridge
UK. Three times round the hold, an NDB approach and miss followed by
another hold and an ILS approach with a full stop landing cost me £47 or $92
inc tax. The landing itself cost $39 and was "discounted" as an incentive
to use the airport for approaches.

Your post should be reproduced by AOPA in ever pilot forum in
America. Nothing more graphically illustrates what we might be facing
here in the US if we don't nip the initiative in the bud.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"