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What's gonna happen to CAP?



 
 
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  #41  
Old September 22nd 07, 12:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
R. Gardner
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Posts: 25
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

Robert

It sounds to me to be a regional problem. I deliberately baited him just to
see the response.

He is saying nothing that we in PA do not do routinely in CAP. We all know
our terrain and our pilots as you said are CFI' to ATP's in fact last year I
worked with a WV pilot who was also a former Alaskan bush pilot. Maybe they
are well organized and the local CAP is not, National should be aware of
this and better be making corrections, but then there is a tone that would
indicate there is more of a personal attitude possibly.

Washington State also, well seems to me I've seen something recently about
searches by CAP in WA, guess someone hasn't told them.

Bottom line, As both a CAP member and a former vol. firefighter, you need
all the help you can get when lives are at stake. And to put out this kind
of statement makes me question, are they doing the best they can for the
people they serve. In those mountains if they don't use the help maybe not.
Then again if there is validity to the statements then the CAP members on
here from those states mentioned better ask why and make corrections to
their training we do not need this kind of sentiment.

Ron Gardner
PA CAP


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 20, 5:29 pm, Newps wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

In CAP we always have sat triangulation information before we launch.
I assume that the initial report was also sat. In this context I'm not
sure what you mean by a "national organization". Pilots in CAP rarely
are searching more than a couple hundred miles from their home. CAP
planes are located in local GA airports, we don't launch from any
central location.


We are locally run and organized, local being statewide. No silly rules
that I've seen
CAP have. The state is divided up into sectors. Each sector has a
designated boss who gets
the call that a plane is missing.


Yes, we call these "IC"s in CAP and they coordinate the air and ground
crews.

He can be in the air in less than an
hour.


Our goal is similar, we generally try to have crews in the air w/i in
hour of notication unless the information suggests a UDF (ground) crew
would be more effective.

Satellite
info not needed/necessary before planes are flying.


Sat info for us is free so we don't turn it down. It allows us to
brief on the location to head towards. Once airborne our onboard
equipment listens for ELTs on 3 different freq (including 406). We
also have onboard VHF radios to communicate with the IC in real time.

One problem I have seen with CAP
pilots is they are much less experienced than the guys that do the SAR
here.


Maybe that is regional. Many of us are CFIs and we even have some
Vietnam era FAC pilots. Many of us are also flying modern G1000
aircraft that also allow photos to be transmitted in real time to
ground crews.

Our guys
flying SAR have multi thousands of hours flying GA airplanes all over
the state and they know the terrain like the back of their hand.


Our pilots are also regional. As you can imagine California has
arguably the most challenging terrain in the U.S. with a combination
of the Sierra's, high deserts and large bodies of water.

-Robert




  #42  
Old September 22nd 07, 10:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Carter[_1_]
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Posts: 403
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

While I was in CAP in Washington, the State Aeronautics Commission (SAC) was
the primary contact for Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC).
However, unless the area was well populated the SAC turned the actual
execution of the search over to CAP. SAC acted as a dotted line reporting
point for CAP once that happened. For searches in the Seattle basin, the
local PD helicopters were used since these were typically ELTs. For searches
outside the populated areas, CAP carried the ball.

I sounds to me like newps is a bit resentful of CAP based on his comments
about "silly rules" and "nationally administered organization" among others.


--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"John Clear" wrote in message
...
In article ,
R. Gardner wrote:
So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.


USAF has a list of who to call on a state by state basis. IIRC,
Washington also doesn't use CAP for air search, preferring to do
it themselves.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/



  #43  
Old September 22nd 07, 10:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Carter[_1_]
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Posts: 403
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

Actually Bob, there is a state by state agreement between USAF AFRCC and the
State governments. This spells out which organization will be contacted. I
spent a week in the hole back when AFRCC was at Scott AFB. My most vivid
memory was the mission where we were trying to find a helo that could hover
out of ground effect at 13,000 feet and still be within range of our target
location to make a hoist pickup. We worked for a couple of hours on that one
until we found one.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"R. Gardner" wrote in message
.. .
UM! Who is we? USAF is the ones who intiate an AC search, never heard
they call anyone but CAP.


"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Neil Gould wrote:




I was in CAP as a teenager, due to my interests in aviation and lack of
money to pursue it other ways. Although there was too much marching to
suit me, I agree that it is a worthy organization with an important
mission.

The question at hand is whether the new transponders will really reduce
the need for S&R?





Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR
ourselves.





  #44  
Old September 22nd 07, 10:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Carter[_1_]
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Posts: 403
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but
dealt with missing persons or homeland security.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas


  #45  
Old September 23rd 07, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dennis Johnson
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Posts: 44
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...
Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but
dealt with missing persons or homeland security.


If you can say it without disclosing anything you shouldn't, what sort of
homeland security missions were they?

Just curious,
Dennis


  #46  
Old September 23rd 07, 06:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Carter[_1_]
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Posts: 403
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

Interesting, fun, and I hope worthwhile.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...
Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but
dealt with missing persons or homeland security.


If you can say it without disclosing anything you shouldn't, what sort of
homeland security missions were they?

Just curious,
Dennis



  #47  
Old September 24th 07, 04:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

On Sep 19, 8:15 am, Jay Honeck wrote:
My son and I were active in Civil Air Patrol a couple of years ago.
The primary training mission was Search and Rescue, utilizing radio
direction finders that allowed us to find transponders that were going
off.

With the impending transition to 406 mhz transponders that will give
far more accurate location information upon activation, we will no
longer need fatigue-clad cadets trudging through the woods on SAR
missions.

CAP is a good organization for kids, basically "Boy Scouts With a
Mission". Given that Search and Rescue is their primary mission, I
wonder what's gonna happen to CAP?


Also, its interesting to note that CAP has been doing a fair amount of
406 hunting. It seems that thought these new units provide better data
than the 121.5 they still need to be found. I just got an email a
moment ago concerning a request from the USGC in helping locate a 406
unit that was going off in their area. All CAP aircraft and ground
teams have 406 locating equipment on board.

-Robert



  #48  
Old September 24th 07, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
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Posts: 3,573
Default What's gonna happen to CAP?

Also, its interesting to note that CAP has been doing a fair amount of
406 hunting. It seems that thought these new units provide better data
than the 121.5 they still need to be found. I just got an email a
moment ago concerning a request from the USGC in helping locate a 406
unit that was going off in their area. All CAP aircraft and ground
teams have 406 locating equipment on board.


So much for the claim that the 406's can be located from space, eh?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

 




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