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#41
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
Robert
It sounds to me to be a regional problem. I deliberately baited him just to see the response. He is saying nothing that we in PA do not do routinely in CAP. We all know our terrain and our pilots as you said are CFI' to ATP's in fact last year I worked with a WV pilot who was also a former Alaskan bush pilot. Maybe they are well organized and the local CAP is not, National should be aware of this and better be making corrections, but then there is a tone that would indicate there is more of a personal attitude possibly. Washington State also, well seems to me I've seen something recently about searches by CAP in WA, guess someone hasn't told them. Bottom line, As both a CAP member and a former vol. firefighter, you need all the help you can get when lives are at stake. And to put out this kind of statement makes me question, are they doing the best they can for the people they serve. In those mountains if they don't use the help maybe not. Then again if there is validity to the statements then the CAP members on here from those states mentioned better ask why and make corrections to their training we do not need this kind of sentiment. Ron Gardner PA CAP "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com... On Sep 20, 5:29 pm, Newps wrote: Robert M. Gary wrote: In CAP we always have sat triangulation information before we launch. I assume that the initial report was also sat. In this context I'm not sure what you mean by a "national organization". Pilots in CAP rarely are searching more than a couple hundred miles from their home. CAP planes are located in local GA airports, we don't launch from any central location. We are locally run and organized, local being statewide. No silly rules that I've seen CAP have. The state is divided up into sectors. Each sector has a designated boss who gets the call that a plane is missing. Yes, we call these "IC"s in CAP and they coordinate the air and ground crews. He can be in the air in less than an hour. Our goal is similar, we generally try to have crews in the air w/i in hour of notication unless the information suggests a UDF (ground) crew would be more effective. Satellite info not needed/necessary before planes are flying. Sat info for us is free so we don't turn it down. It allows us to brief on the location to head towards. Once airborne our onboard equipment listens for ELTs on 3 different freq (including 406). We also have onboard VHF radios to communicate with the IC in real time. One problem I have seen with CAP pilots is they are much less experienced than the guys that do the SAR here. Maybe that is regional. Many of us are CFIs and we even have some Vietnam era FAC pilots. Many of us are also flying modern G1000 aircraft that also allow photos to be transmitted in real time to ground crews. Our guys flying SAR have multi thousands of hours flying GA airplanes all over the state and they know the terrain like the back of their hand. Our pilots are also regional. As you can imagine California has arguably the most challenging terrain in the U.S. with a combination of the Sierra's, high deserts and large bodies of water. -Robert |
#42
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
While I was in CAP in Washington, the State Aeronautics Commission (SAC) was
the primary contact for Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC). However, unless the area was well populated the SAC turned the actual execution of the search over to CAP. SAC acted as a dotted line reporting point for CAP once that happened. For searches in the Seattle basin, the local PD helicopters were used since these were typically ELTs. For searches outside the populated areas, CAP carried the ball. I sounds to me like newps is a bit resentful of CAP based on his comments about "silly rules" and "nationally administered organization" among others. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "John Clear" wrote in message ... In article , R. Gardner wrote: So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I heard there is still a Montana Wing. USAF has a list of who to call on a state by state basis. IIRC, Washington also doesn't use CAP for air search, preferring to do it themselves. John -- John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/ |
#43
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
Actually Bob, there is a state by state agreement between USAF AFRCC and the
State governments. This spells out which organization will be contacted. I spent a week in the hole back when AFRCC was at Scott AFB. My most vivid memory was the mission where we were trying to find a helo that could hover out of ground effect at 13,000 feet and still be within range of our target location to make a hoist pickup. We worked for a couple of hours on that one until we found one. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "R. Gardner" wrote in message .. . UM! Who is we? USAF is the ones who intiate an AC search, never heard they call anyone but CAP. "Newps" wrote in message . .. Neil Gould wrote: I was in CAP as a teenager, due to my interests in aviation and lack of money to pursue it other ways. Although there was too much marching to suit me, I agree that it is a worthy organization with an important mission. The question at hand is whether the new transponders will really reduce the need for S&R? Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR ourselves. |
#44
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but
dealt with missing persons or homeland security. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas |
#45
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
"Jim Carter" wrote in message ... Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but dealt with missing persons or homeland security. If you can say it without disclosing anything you shouldn't, what sort of homeland security missions were they? Just curious, Dennis |
#46
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
Interesting, fun, and I hope worthwhile.
-- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Dennis Johnson" wrote in message . .. "Jim Carter" wrote in message ... Last 4 missions I've been on have not been ELT or missing aircraft, but dealt with missing persons or homeland security. If you can say it without disclosing anything you shouldn't, what sort of homeland security missions were they? Just curious, Dennis |
#47
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
On Sep 19, 8:15 am, Jay Honeck wrote:
My son and I were active in Civil Air Patrol a couple of years ago. The primary training mission was Search and Rescue, utilizing radio direction finders that allowed us to find transponders that were going off. With the impending transition to 406 mhz transponders that will give far more accurate location information upon activation, we will no longer need fatigue-clad cadets trudging through the woods on SAR missions. CAP is a good organization for kids, basically "Boy Scouts With a Mission". Given that Search and Rescue is their primary mission, I wonder what's gonna happen to CAP? Also, its interesting to note that CAP has been doing a fair amount of 406 hunting. It seems that thought these new units provide better data than the 121.5 they still need to be found. I just got an email a moment ago concerning a request from the USGC in helping locate a 406 unit that was going off in their area. All CAP aircraft and ground teams have 406 locating equipment on board. -Robert |
#48
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What's gonna happen to CAP?
Also, its interesting to note that CAP has been doing a fair amount of
406 hunting. It seems that thought these new units provide better data than the 121.5 they still need to be found. I just got an email a moment ago concerning a request from the USGC in helping locate a 406 unit that was going off in their area. All CAP aircraft and ground teams have 406 locating equipment on board. So much for the claim that the 406's can be located from space, eh? -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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