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#91
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Tom Sixkiller wrote: And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how much _desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially in children, grasps data nd makes sense of it. If you think all human minds grasp data and make sense of it in the same way you are highly mistaken. Try reading Gardner for a start and then look up all you can on learning styles (Dunn and Dunn would be a good start). While none of these theories should be taken as the perfect solution either you can learn quite a bit from them. Margy |
#92
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Tom Sixkiller wrote: How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the trait the differs humans from other animals. That would be the opposable thumb. :-) Margy |
#93
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Dude wrote: Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the fact that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right to do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are capable of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of those people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not. The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to separate the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents. I don't think corporal punishment is the answer. I'm lucky enough to work in a building where I can have control in my classroom (and I specialize in emotionally disturbed students!!). We do need strict and enforced rules in schools. We also need teachers who respect their students as individuals and parents who expect their children to respect teachers as individuals. (also parents who expect children to respect parents!). I've seen way too many children who are in control of their houses. Margy "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Judah" wrote in message ... "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in : "Jordan" wrote in message ... If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain dead to endure and is finished. That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make $100,000 an episode... Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is now BY ROTE. |
#94
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Margy Natalie wrote: Tom Sixkiller wrote: How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the trait the differs humans from other animals. That would be the opposable thumb. :-) Taken a good look at a racoon lately? George Patterson Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is "Hummmmm... That's interesting...." |
#95
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Tom Sixkiller wrote: "Dude" wrote in message ... I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their kids education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess. People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth them, care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now. If they fail to do those things now, we call it...what? There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their children. At least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours a day. It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL. Margy "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Dude" wrote in message ... Tom, Making the parents more involved by making them pay would be great, but I am not gonna hold my breath. Also, I am not sure that the end result would be a net improvement. Many parents are such numbskulls that the kids may end up getting even less education. I know what you are thinking, but there is not room in the jails for all the parents who fit this bill. Jail? How does that fit? So, I will agree with you in theory, but have to disagree in what is practical (at least until congress is taken over by libertarians). Until the majority of people change between their ears, nothing is going to change/improve _politically_. As long as the notion of public schools is predominnt, it will continue its course. "You can't change a country through the politcal process; you can only change people's point-of-view (ie, political views/outlook). OUT "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Dude" wrote in message ... Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the fact that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right to do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are capable of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of those people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not. The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to separate the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents. Right there you hit the nail on the head...kinda. If parents had to pay for their kids education out of THEIR pocket, instead of their neighbors, damn sure they would pay attention to their kids learning and behavior. Ain't going to happen in tax funded schools. |
#96
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Margy's posts echo everything my wife -- a dedicated public school
teacher -- has said about Montessori schools, teaching methods, etc. And my wife's not even a pilot. Henry "Margy Natalie" wrote in message ... Tom Sixkiller wrote: "Dude" wrote in message ... I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their kids education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess. People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth them, care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now. If they fail to do those things now, we call it...what? There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their children. At least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours a day. It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL. Margy "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Dude" wrote in message ... Tom, Making the parents more involved by making them pay would be great, but I am not gonna hold my breath. Also, I am not sure that the end result would be a net improvement. Many parents are such numbskulls that the kids may end up getting even less education. I know what you are thinking, but there is not room in the jails for all the parents who fit this bill. Jail? How does that fit? So, I will agree with you in theory, but have to disagree in what is practical (at least until congress is taken over by libertarians). Until the majority of people change between their ears, nothing is going to change/improve _politically_. As long as the notion of public schools is predominnt, it will continue its course. "You can't change a country through the politcal process; you can only change people's point-of-view (ie, political views/outlook). OUT "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Dude" wrote in message ... Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the fact that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right to do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are capable of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of those people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not. The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to separate the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents. Right there you hit the nail on the head...kinda. If parents had to pay for their kids education out of THEIR pocket, instead of their neighbors, damn sure they would pay attention to their kids learning and behavior. Ain't going to happen in tax funded schools. |
#97
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"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
... Tom Sixkiller wrote: "Dude" wrote in message ... I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their kids education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess. People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth them, care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now. If they fail to do those things now, we call it...what? There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their children. At least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours a day. It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL. It's better termed "Public Day Care"...right up to age 18. In the mean time, those there to LEARN are putting up with the encumbrance. If people want "day care", have romper rooms all over the place, but don't make schools a daytime babysitter, to augment the evening babysitter...that being the "Boob Tube". Notice how the situation continues to deteriorate in parallel with the level of parental responsibility. No amount of cash will solve it. |
#98
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Margy,
I must challenge this statement: "Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do study how minds work." I was with you all the way until I got to this one. Either your positive attitude, or an unusually positive series of coincidences has shaded your judgement on the interest in childrens' minds held by many teachers today. I am not uninformed. A close personal friend of mine is a public school teacher, and I attended several public and private schools. Unlike many people, I have a good memory of what transpired. While perhaps not a majority, many teachers have quit caring enough. I don't necessarily blame it on the teachers, but I do blame them for not quitting. That's right, stop whining and vote with your feet. Too many teachers today are simply filling the job because they feel helpless, or no longer care, but for various reasons do not quit. Parents, administrators, and union hacks will not get together on this problem until the teachers stop talking and act. If a teacher has stopped being a student of the art of educating children, they should not be in the classroom (just like pilots who have stopped learning are dangerous in the cockpit). I suppose that your experience with such a gifted child has led you to have better teachers. Teaching the bright kids takes more energy and talent than many of today's teachers have. "Margy Natalie" wrote in message ... Judah wrote: My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my daughter will start Kindergarden next fall. Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge presented to them. Ask higher order questions on Blooms Taxonomy (analysis and synthesis questions) about the material they are presented. They need to know the who, what, when , but the why and how shows understanding. Don't push abstract concepts on young children!! Earlier is not better! Read some Piaget. Don't teach little kids algebra (my 140 + IQ daughter struggled through algebra in 7th grade and would have done fine in 8th. Even though she's good in math (A in second semester Calculus as a first semester freshman at Penn State) she's not confident in math because of that experience. Due to the pressures of standarized testing students get more information and less time to work on basics. Make reading and writing fun and practice at home. Have your kids write the grocery list and do the grocery shopping. Have them estimate what the total bill will be as they go through the store. Have them play imaginitive games not on the computer. Make sure they play outside, turn part of the yard into Mars or something and they can build vehicles to explore. Ask them to write down what they do "on Mars" for you to read when you get home from work. Write notes to your kids to convey information. " I'll be home at 6:00 and then we can go to the store". Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do study how minds work. Make sure your kids DO when they are learning. Lecture format has a 5% retention rate whereas adding a simple write it down increases it to 30%. The more interactive the learning the higher the retention. For kids who have a tough time spelling marching the words out to a tune really helps. Also make sure your kids drink enough water as brain research has shown that dehydrated brains don't absorb knowledge (most schools now allow the kids to carry water bottles if they are clear plastic). Margy Thanks. "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in : "Michael Houghton" wrote in message ... snip Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience. I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about their students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so nearly ubiquitous as you would claim. "Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it works. Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. yours, Michael Best, Tom |
#99
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Margy,
What kind of district do you teach in. I live in an urban environment where the school district is notoriously disrespected (likely becuase they do little other than trying to manipulate their test scores to show improvement by teaching the tests, picking who does and doesn't take the test using threats, lying about the actual results, and outright changing answers on the kids' tests). "Margy Natalie" wrote in message ... Dude wrote: Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the fact that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right to do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are capable of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of those people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not. The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to separate the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents. I don't think corporal punishment is the answer. I'm lucky enough to work in a building where I can have control in my classroom (and I specialize in emotionally disturbed students!!). We do need strict and enforced rules in schools. We also need teachers who respect their students as individuals and parents who expect their children to respect teachers as individuals. (also parents who expect children to respect parents!). I've seen way too many children who are in control of their houses. Margy "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Judah" wrote in message ... "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in : "Jordan" wrote in message ... If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain dead to endure and is finished. That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities make $100,000 an episode... Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is now BY ROTE. |
#100
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"Dude" wrote in message ... Margy, I must challenge this statement: "Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do study how minds work." I was with you all the way until I got to this one. Either your positive attitude, or an unusually positive series of coincidences has shaded your judgement on the interest in childrens' minds held by many teachers today. I am not uninformed. A close personal friend of mine is a public school teacher, and I attended several public and private schools. Unlike many people, I have a good memory of what transpired. Here's a question you might ask any teacher, particularly at the elementary school level: Differentiate the "Look-Say" and "Phonetic" methods of teaching reading. Why is one method better than the other? It's rather amazing (at least in my experience) how many CAN'T explain it and how many current teachers really can't fathom why the look-say method is an abject failure. |
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