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#161
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I give up, after many, many years!
Mxsmanic wrote:
Nomen Nescio writes: Who are all these "experts" that you keep mentioning? The ones who write aviation books for the FAA, NASA, etc. Good instructors don't teach as one person basing what they teach on their opinion alone. Good instructors use good material written by experts in their field. I know many who have themselves written for their field. No instructor worth the title shuns the collective knowledge of those who came before him/her. Good instructors also know where simulation can be useful and where it should be avoided. All good instruction is fluid and makes use of all pertinent and useful tools. -- Dudley Henriques |
#162
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I give up, after many, many years!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On May 14, 9:23 pm, Clark wrote: Learn to fly and then come back and tell everyone how much you really knew before actually flying the plane. Alternatively: talk to instructors about the students who "studied" on a simulator before learning to fly. It's rather entertaining to hear about folks who can tune a radio and fly the airways but they can't reliably find a runway much less land on it. Hell, on my practical test the only VOR work I had to do was give a simple heading to an airport. The DPE was much more concerned about the practical operation of the aircraft rather than simple radio nav skills. In other words, studying a subject academically is much different than actually participating in that subject physically and mentally. Certainly you will agree that, all things being equal, it is good to learn as much as one can on the ground before getting into the cockpit? There is no substitute for manual practice, but manual practice is going to happen anyway. Why wait until getting into the cockpit before learning things that can be learned on the ground? And why do all these flight schols have simulators? -Le Chaud Lapin- Because you don't fully understand the context of what you are learning. Back in the dark ages when I got my PPL it was common practice to take the ground school at night while training. Sort of like having classroom and lab. As for the simulators they are used almost exclusively for IFR training. |
#163
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I give up, after many, many years!
Clark wrote:
We had the same instructor and flew about the same number of hours per week. My instructor mentioned that the other guy spent a long time learning to look out the window rather than at the gauges. He probably had trouble getting used to "feeling" slips, skids and G-force difference as well. Also the difference between control movement and control pressure. The payoff for him will come around during Instrument training, if he chooses to do that. I got a lot of mileage out of MSFS during my IFR training, and still shoot approaches in it. In fact, in this month's AOPA Pilot magazine, Rod Machado mentions Flight Simulator as a tool to stay proficient during extended periods away from the cockpit. Of course, that assumes the reader is already a pilot. -c |
#164
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I give up, after many, many years!
On May 15, 9:40*pm, Clark wrote:
First off, don't even pretend to know what I will agree with. If you can't do that then there is absolutely no point at all in responding. Got it? Second, don't pretend to know what you need learn before getting in an airplane. As I said before, talk to flight instructors and trust their guidance in the matter. The instructors I know say that simulation before flying is a detriment. Why would you assume to know better????? I use the simulator for things that the simulator is good for. Getting experience with VOR tracking in a simulator is a lot cheaper than hands-on-training in a cockpit at $100US/hour, for example. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#165
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I give up, after many, many years!
On May 16, 8:36*am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote: Le Chaud Lapin wrote: On May 14, 9:23 pm, Clark wrote: Learn to fly and then come back and tell everyone how much you really knew before actually flying the plane. Alternatively: talk to instructors about the students who "studied" on a simulator before learning to fly. It's rather entertaining to hear about folks who can tune a radio and fly the airways but they can't reliably find a runway much less land on it. Hell, on my practical test the only VOR work I had to do was give a simple heading to an airport. The DPE was much more concerned about the practical operation of the aircraft rather than simple radio nav skills. In other words, studying a subject academically is much different than actually participating in that subject physically and mentally. Certainly you will agree that, all things being equal, it is good to learn as much as one can on the ground before getting into the cockpit? There is no substitute for manual practice, but manual practice is going to happen anyway. *Why wait until getting into the cockpit before learning things that can be learned on the ground? And why do all these flight schols have simulators? -Le Chaud Lapin- Because you don't fully understand the context of what you are learning. * Back in the dark ages when I got my PPL it was common practice to take the ground school at night while training. Sort of like having classroom and lab. What about books? I am reading FAA Handbook from front to back currently. Any danger in doing that without an instructor present? -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#166
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I give up, after many, many years!
On May 16, 11:19*am, gatt wrote:
Clark wrote: We had the same instructor and flew about the same number of hours per week. My instructor mentioned that the other guy spent a long time learning to look out the window rather than at the gauges. He probably had trouble getting used to "feeling" slips, skids and G-force difference as well. *Also the difference between control movement and control pressure. If this is the danger that pilots warn about, I know I will not have it. I have all the flight sim controls, including CH Pro peddals, yoke, joysticks, separte headset, life-size render of guages, etc.. I do not delude myself into thinking that any of these things are a substitute for a cockpit. I only use the simulator for "mens" part of "mens et manus". The payoff for him will come around during Instrument training, if he chooses to do that. *I got a lot of mileage out of MSFS during my IFR training, and still shoot approaches in it. *In fact, in this month's AOPA Pilot magazine, Rod Machado mentions Flight Simulator as a tool to stay proficient during extended periods away from the cockpit. *Of course, that assumes the reader is already a pilot. And let us not forget the "Learning to Fly With Rod Machado" that comes with MSFS. I think that if flight simulators were as dangerous as some pilots claimed, someone so dedicated to teaching would have said so. I think it comes down to the disposition and discipline of the student. As long as s/he understands which part are safely transferrable from the simulator (like understanding how VOR works), then not much harm will be done. In any case, I have already flown in real cockpit, and not at anytime did I expect the aircraft to behave or feel like my living room sofa. -Le Chaud Lapin- |
#167
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I give up, after many, many years!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
He probably had trouble getting used to "feeling" slips, skids and G-force difference as well. Also the difference between control movement and control pressure. If this is the danger that pilots warn about, I know I will not have it. I have all the flight sim controls, including CH Pro peddals, yoke, joysticks, separte headset, life-size render of guages, etc.. They won't slide you around in the seat during an uncoordinated turn or lift you against the belt harness centripetal acceleration. The closest "simulator" to the real thing I've ever flown is a Frasca Tru-Flight like this one: http://www.frasca.com/body/TruVision170.Lo.jpg They usually cost about $100/hr to fly but if there's one in your area, I highly recommend it. I do instrument approaches in one every few months or so. I think that if flight simulators were as dangerous as some pilots claimed, someone so dedicated to teaching would have said so. Many do. As long as s/he understands which part are safely transferrable from the simulator (like understanding how VOR works), then not much harm will be done. That's exactly correct. It's the bad habits that one needs to be aware of. (Simulators are forgiving and you don't have to worry about ADM, communication, runway incursions or ground procedures.) I recently installed the Wings of Power aircraft on my MSFS2004 and have been having a blast with the heavy bombers, as well as a P-38. -c |
#168
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I give up, after many, many years!
gatt writes:
They won't slide you around in the seat during an uncoordinated turn or lift you against the belt harness centripetal acceleration. Those sensations aren't necessarily imporant, unless one is flying by the seat of one's pants, which probably isn't a good idea for most types of flight. |
#169
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I give up, after many, many years!
Mxsmanic wrote:
gatt writes: They won't slide you around in the seat during an uncoordinated turn or lift you against the belt harness centripetal acceleration. Those sensations aren't necessarily imporant, unless one is flying by the seat of one's pants, which probably isn't a good idea for most types of flight. Wrong. If IFR an uncoordinated turn generally means either the instruments have lunched or you've screwed up. If VFR you are supposed to be looking out the window, not staring at the instruments, so the sensation of an uncoordinated turn would normally be the first indication it is happening. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#170
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I give up, after many, many years!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
I use the simulator for things that the simulator is good for. Getting experience with VOR tracking in a simulator is a lot cheaper than hands-on-training in a cockpit at $100US/hour, for example. -Le Chaud Lapin- But you are learning, or not learning as is probably the case, out of order. Sort of like learning Algebra before you know what 2 + 2 is. |
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