If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
On Anderson Cooper 360 about last night, (at least) one of their
sources pointed out that to make the tight turn to compelte the u-turn at that altitude and turning left, a very steep bank is needed, and that this can cause a los of altitude -- and the radar returns indicate that 200' was lost during the turn. IIRC, William Langewiesche talks about this in his Atlantic article (Dec '93, it seems), and maybe in Stick and Rudder (Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche, William Langewiesche, ISBN: 0070362408 Pub. Date: September 1990). I don't have a copy in front of me (of either -- the Atlantic article is not one of the non-subscription ones, unlike the EgyptAir article). Does anyone have additional information? I know, the official version won't be available for months, but there will gradually be information available that will add to our picture. Which apartment was the engine found in, btw -- the point of original contact? A sidebar is that the pilot for the TV report siad, "this is very busy space...I wouldn't fly solo here; having someone to do the radio knobs [etc] would make a big difference" (I don't think that's verbatim, but it should be close"). One way some good could come out of this, I hope, is if researchers such as those at Purdue can use this as a check of their WTC models. If properly calibrated, the models should show the difference in damage (see http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060911153219.htm, and better copies of the simulation pictures at the Purdue site). /dps |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
Snidely wrote: On Anderson Cooper 360 about last night, (at least) one of their sources pointed out that to make the tight turn to compelte the u-turn at that altitude and turning left, a very steep bank is needed, and that this can cause a los of altitude -- and the radar returns indicate that 200' was lost during the turn. IIRC, William Langewiesche talks about this in his Atlantic article (Dec '93, it seems), and maybe in Stick and Rudder (Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche, William Langewiesche, ISBN: 0070362408 Pub. Date: September 1990). Another Atlantic columnist, talks about the crash in 2 articles: "For the second time in a month, I have woken up (in China) to news of a fatal crash of exactly the kind of airplane that I used to own and fly." http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200610u/lidle-crash See also http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200610u/lidle-crash-2 /dps |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
Go Take a mountain flying class and you will learn about speed, tempture,
wind, and turns. Also don't believe anything you here on the news! Like Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and they all want to kill Americans hahahahaha Well I walked the streets at night for a few hours alone, myself a non Muslim on a Muslim holiday and nothing but friendly people even the guys with the machine guns has proper muzzle control and friendlier than our police in the states!! But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look and wonder that is if we are such a civilized society then why are we not removing rules/laws If we were civilized we would not be making up new rules/laws!!!! Funniest thing I herd on the news this week was an "Aviation Psychologist" What the hell was is a Aviation Psychologist!!!! He had his facts and times for ratings wrong it was good comedy for a pilots!!!! No wonder why the guy no longer works for the NTSB and The FAA hahahahaha the guy was a quack!!!! "Snidely" wrote in message oups.com... On Anderson Cooper 360 about last night, (at least) one of their sources pointed out that to make the tight turn to compelte the u-turn at that altitude and turning left, a very steep bank is needed, and that this can cause a los of altitude -- and the radar returns indicate that 200' was lost during the turn. IIRC, William Langewiesche talks about this in his Atlantic article (Dec '93, it seems), and maybe in Stick and Rudder (Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche, William Langewiesche, ISBN: 0070362408 Pub. Date: September 1990). I don't have a copy in front of me (of either -- the Atlantic article is not one of the non-subscription ones, unlike the EgyptAir article). Does anyone have additional information? I know, the official version won't be available for months, but there will gradually be information available that will add to our picture. Which apartment was the engine found in, btw -- the point of original contact? A sidebar is that the pilot for the TV report siad, "this is very busy space...I wouldn't fly solo here; having someone to do the radio knobs [etc] would make a big difference" (I don't think that's verbatim, but it should be close"). One way some good could come out of this, I hope, is if researchers such as those at Purdue can use this as a check of their WTC models. If properly calibrated, the models should show the difference in damage (see http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060911153219.htm, and better copies of the simulation pictures at the Purdue site). /dps |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
On Anderson Cooper 360 about last night, (at least) one of their
sources pointed out that to make the tight turn to compelte the u-turn at that altitude and turning left, a very steep bank is needed, and that this can cause a los of altitude -- and the radar returns indicate that 200' was lost during the turn. I seem to recall being required, on check rides, to do two 360 degree turns, one each way (like a figure 8), at 60 degrees of bank, without losing (or gaining) any altitude. vince norris |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 21:00:39 -0400, vincent p. norris
wrote: On Anderson Cooper 360 about last night, (at least) one of their sources pointed out that to make the tight turn to compelte the u-turn at that altitude and turning left, a very steep bank is needed, and that this can cause a los of altitude -- and the radar returns indicate that 200' was lost during the turn. I seem to recall being required, on check rides, to do two 360 degree turns, one each way (like a figure 8), at 60 degrees of bank, without losing (or gaining) any altitude. vince norris Then there's that business of pull up, wingover, pull out in opposite direction at same altitude. That's CPL training, if I recall. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
Blanche Cohen wrote: Aircraft Turn Calculator www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html Interesting -- but doesn't speak to asltitude issues (loss of, or adjustments to avoid loss of). Tnx /dps |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
On 16 Oct 2006 13:28:37 -0700, "Snidely"
wrote: Blanche Cohen wrote: Aircraft Turn Calculator www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html Interesting -- but doesn't speak to asltitude issues (loss of, or adjustments to avoid loss of). Losing altitude at a constant rate (rather than accelerating downward) would be the same as maintaining a constant altitude, wouldn't it? (Vectors on a free-body diagram and all that) Don |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
Don Tuite wrote:
On 16 Oct 2006 13:28:37 -0700, "Snidely" wrote: Blanche Cohen wrote: Aircraft Turn Calculator www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html Interesting -- but doesn't speak to asltitude issues (loss of, or adjustments to avoid loss of). Losing altitude at a constant rate (rather than accelerating downward) would be the same as maintaining a constant altitude, wouldn't it? (Vectors on a free-body diagram and all that) Don You get additional horsepower from going downhill, letting you maintain your speed. -- Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Lidle, Langewiesche, and turns
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:41:58 GMT, Ron Hardin
wrote: Don Tuite wrote: On 16 Oct 2006 13:28:37 -0700, "Snidely" wrote: Blanche Cohen wrote: Aircraft Turn Calculator www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html Interesting -- but doesn't speak to asltitude issues (loss of, or adjustments to avoid loss of). Losing altitude at a constant rate (rather than accelerating downward) would be the same as maintaining a constant altitude, wouldn't it? (Vectors on a free-body diagram and all that) Don You get additional horsepower from going downhill, letting you maintain your speed. Telegraphic as ever, Ron. So, because I'm using the same throttle position as I was using in level flight, I'm descending while in a turn and banked at A degrees. The airplane seat is pushing on my butt at an angle A degrees from vertical. That can be resolved into a vertical vector and a horizontal vector aimed at the center of the circular path I'm describing. Meanwhile the back of the seat is exerting another force on my butt tangential to the circular path I'm describing in the horizontal, er, "plane." That force is a reaction to the thrust of the prop. If I "maintain my speed," I get the same lift I would have got from adding enough throttle so as not to lose altitude. That means the magnitude of the vertical component of the lift vector is still equal to mg and my rate of descent is constant. You were agreeing with me? (Never happened before.) Maintaining vertical equilbrium depends on maintaining the same speed as in straight and level flight, doesn't it? Don |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|