Learning to fly

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:34:35 -0500, Michael Ash
wrote:

I must object to this, as some of the most spectacular soaring can happen
in the dead of winter,

Assuming that paragliding is similar, one of the great treats of
skiing at Aspen is watching the fliers play off the open slopes
(pistes to the lad in the UK) and forests.

I've never seen a hard-shell glider doing this, perhaps because the
airport is near 8,000 feet and the tow plane would really have its
work cut out for it.

The paragliders just ski down the mountain a few hundred feet, then
pop the chute out of a very large backpack.


Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com

Cubdriver wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:34:35 -0500, Michael Ash
wrote:

I must object to this, as some of the most spectacular soaring can happen
in the dead of winter,

Assuming that paragliding is similar, one of the great treats of
skiing at Aspen is watching the fliers play off the open slopes
(pistes to the lad in the UK) and forests.

I've never seen a hard-shell glider doing this, perhaps because the
airport is near 8,000 feet and the tow plane would really have its
work cut out for it.

Glider towing is done out of Telluride and Buena Vista, both above 8000
feet, and Salida at 7000 feet. Tows out of Front Range glider
operations are routinely higher than 8000 feet as well.


Shawn

Cubdriver wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:07:03 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

252lbs is a lot of weight to go gliding with. It's also a lot of weight
for a light powered airplane.

Lately we have been instructed NOT to fuel the Cubs after we are done
with them. It seems that both the instructors and the students are now
each approaching 200 pounds.

Body shape is also a consideration. I had a friend in that weight
range (250 lb) who wanted to take lessons, but the Cub was out of the
question because he couldn't get the stick back to full-stall.



Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com
This is the same procedure we used for our Cessna 150's way back when. I
made it each instructor's responsibility to insure that the schedule was
checked by radio after a flight to see if fuel would be an issue for the
next scheduled flight for a specific aircraft.

Naturally we didn't catch it every time as walk in's were frequent, but
it's surprising how many times we DID catch a W&B issue coming in for a
specific 150 and avoid it by not topping off the tanks.
In the J3, doing this could prove to be a very good policy indeed.
Dudley Henriques

On Jul 8, 6:23 pm, Peter wrote:
Rob McDonald wrote

My experience with soaring is that you are always doing something when you
are not flying. Socializing with club members is part of the experience,
and much more common in my experience than in power-plane flying clubs.

The social scene seems to be a way of life. It's OK if you want that,
not OK if you don't. But one needs to be clear that this is the
choice. I looked into gliding and it was obvious one would spend the
whole weekend hanging around.

I think it depends on where you're flying. I understand that in the US
you can book lessons with instructors and turn up a set time, fly, and
go home again.

In the UK you get instruction for free but have to spend the whole day
on a cold field being bored for twenty minutes of flying. In theory
you can entertain yourself by doing some other jobs e.g. helping
launch gliders, driving winch retrieve etc. but if you do that people
will quickly come to expect it of you, and you'll rapidly find
yourself part of a small group which does all the work while everyone
else shirks.

And people wonder why UK gliding is shrinking faster than the
icecaps...

A couple of clubs have got their arses into gear and introduced
booking systems and are indeed reaping the results (more members
flying than they know what to do with), but those clubs are very much
in the minority (introducing something new implies the old system was
inadequate, and it's very hard for people to admit that they were
inadequate).


Dan

Dan G wrote:
On Jul 8, 6:23 pm, Peter wrote:
Rob McDonald wrote

My experience with soaring is that you are always doing something when you
are not flying. Socializing with club members is part of the experience,
and much more common in my experience than in power-plane flying clubs.
The social scene seems to be a way of life. It's OK if you want that,
not OK if you don't. But one needs to be clear that this is the
choice. I looked into gliding and it was obvious one would spend the
whole weekend hanging around.

I think it depends on where you're flying. I understand that in the US
you can book lessons with instructors and turn up a set time, fly, and
go home again.

In the UK you get instruction for free but have to spend the whole day
on a cold field being bored for twenty minutes of flying. In theory
you can entertain yourself by doing some other jobs e.g. helping
launch gliders, driving winch retrieve etc. but if you do that people
will quickly come to expect it of you, and you'll rapidly find
yourself part of a small group which does all the work while everyone
else shirks.

And people wonder why UK gliding is shrinking faster than the
icecaps...

A couple of clubs have got their arses into gear and introduced
booking systems and are indeed reaping the results (more members
flying than they know what to do with), but those clubs are very much
in the minority (introducing something new implies the old system was
inadequate, and it's very hard for people to admit that they were
inadequate).


Dan

Actually not a bad system for learning. Naturally it all depends on your
available time and the level of your incentive, but I'm one instructor
who believes strongly in the concept of "hanging around the field" as
one of the strongest learning tools in aviation.
Doing this, you soon pick up on how things are done and why. You also
see first hand the result of things tried, done, and not done. You learn
fairly fast just who knows what they are doign and who doesn't.
All in all, hanging around the field can pay off in HUGE unpaid for
dividends for those with the time to do it.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Cubdriver wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:07:03 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

252lbs is a lot of weight to go gliding with. It's also a lot of weight
for a light powered airplane.

Lately we have been instructed NOT to fuel the Cubs after we are done
with them. It seems that both the instructors and the students are now
each approaching 200 pounds.

Body shape is also a consideration. I had a friend in that weight
range (250 lb) who wanted to take lessons, but the Cub was out of the
question because he couldn't get the stick back to full-stall.



Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942 forthcoming from
HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com
This is the same procedure we used for our Cessna 150's way back when. I
made it each instructor's responsibility to insure that the schedule was
checked by radio after a flight to see if fuel would be an issue for the
next scheduled flight for a specific aircraft.

Naturally we didn't catch it every time as walk in's were frequent, but
it's surprising how many times we DID catch a W&B issue coming in for a
specific 150 and avoid it by not topping off the tanks.
In the J3, doing this could prove to be a very good policy indeed.
Dudley Henriques

And in the 152 with long range tanks, you could climb to practice
altitude quicker.

Al G

A lot more hanging about waiting to get a launch as well. I have never
really "got" gliding, being a die'd in the wool power chap. Too much down
time for me.

I'd recommend the NPPL M

David

Hmm. Sunday, I went to the glider field (H07 in IL) around 10 am,
preflighted my glider, got in line for a tow, and 15 minutes later
released at 1500' agl after about 2 minutes on tow, then flew a 200
mile XC in about 5 hours, exploring the south Illinois countryside
under beautiful Cumulus clouds while practicing for a glider race next
week. Ended up landing at a nice airport (KGRE) 12 miles away from
where I took off (day died a bit early and I pushed a little too
hard), called my friends, and they drove my trailer over so I could
derig my glider and get back to the clubhouse for adult beverages and
postflight BS session.

Great way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

If you want to travel, do it in a stinkpot - sorry, airplane. If you
want to fly, do it in a glider!

By the way, if you are in Michigan next week, stop by the Ionia
airport and check out the glider races.

Kirk
(lots of hours in both)

By spending a significant amount of time at the field, one sees many good
and bad takeoffs and landings. It's possible to learn a great deal just by
observing and discussing with your clubmates.

By pitching in to help rig and derig gliders - the club's and the other
private pilots who keep their ships at the field - one can learn how they
differ and what one might want to eventually buy.

Yes, I've had those days where I only flew for 20 minutes... or not at all.
With an hour drive both ways, I was into it about for 2 years before my
day's soaring time exceeded my drive time!

In my experience, those that expect to show up, fly, and go home do not get
deeply into the sport because they don't learn enough to make the commitment
to truly learn to soar. I decided from the beginning that if I was going to
be a pilot I'd better give it my all in order to be safe and proficient.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Dan G wrote:
On Jul 8, 6:23 pm, Peter wrote:
Rob McDonald wrote

My experience with soaring is that you are always doing something when
you
are not flying. Socializing with club members is part of the
experience,
and much more common in my experience than in power-plane flying clubs.
The social scene seems to be a way of life. It's OK if you want that,
not OK if you don't. But one needs to be clear that this is the
choice. I looked into gliding and it was obvious one would spend the
whole weekend hanging around.

I think it depends on where you're flying. I understand that in the US
you can book lessons with instructors and turn up a set time, fly, and
go home again.

In the UK you get instruction for free but have to spend the whole day
on a cold field being bored for twenty minutes of flying. In theory
you can entertain yourself by doing some other jobs e.g. helping
launch gliders, driving winch retrieve etc. but if you do that people
will quickly come to expect it of you, and you'll rapidly find
yourself part of a small group which does all the work while everyone
else shirks.

And people wonder why UK gliding is shrinking faster than the
icecaps...

A couple of clubs have got their arses into gear and introduced
booking systems and are indeed reaping the results (more members
flying than they know what to do with), but those clubs are very much
in the minority (introducing something new implies the old system was
inadequate, and it's very hard for people to admit that they were
inadequate).


Dan

Actually not a bad system for learning. Naturally it all depends on your
available time and the level of your incentive, but I'm one instructor who
believes strongly in the concept of "hanging around the field" as one of
the strongest learning tools in aviation.
Doing this, you soon pick up on how things are done and why. You also see
first hand the result of things tried, done, and not done. You learn
fairly fast just who knows what they are doign and who doesn't.
All in all, hanging around the field can pay off in HUGE unpaid for
dividends for those with the time to do it.
Dudley Henriques

On Jul 8, 4:37 pm, Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote:

Body shape is also a consideration. I had a friend in that weight
range (250 lb) who wanted to take lessons, but the Cub was out of the
question because he couldn't get the stick back to full-stall.

And a word of warning re gliders: the training gliders that we fly at
our club allow for max. 110kgs in either front or back seat - similar
in the (once) popular K13s, with total payloads lower (e.g., around
167kgs for the 13).

That said, there are lots of clubs around London:

http://www.gliding.co.uk/findaclub/ukmap.htm