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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 1st 19, 04:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael N.
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Posts: 21
Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

I'm looking for a glider for cross country in the $25k range.

I'd like to get a flapped 15 meter, and have been doing a lot of searching and reading on the groups and have kind of narrowed my decision down to an ASW20 or LS3a

I have about 200 hours in gliders all glass, but never anything with flaps, however I also owned and have several hundred hours in a Mooney M20C so have good experience in complex aircraft that require good in flight planning for various aspects of flight.

I was also considering the following, and will list some of my reasons for weeding them out of my choice list.

Ventus B: Great performance, but my understanding from reading (no actual experience) is that they are not forgiving or maybe a better way of putting it, is they require full time attention which can be fatiguing on long flights.

DG 200 or 202, good aircraft but you have to pay annual fees just to buy parts?

Mini Nimbus: also good aircraft, just not up to the same performance level as an ASW20

That kind of leaves the ASW20 or LS3 in this price range and category. Unless I am missing something.

So which would you have and why?
I am leaning towards an ASW20 purchase, but am finding some very well equipped LS3a's in the same price range as a moderately equipped ASW20.

Assuming similar clamshell style trailers and self rigging gear, which is the better buy or which would you have and why?

Also, anyone knowing of an ASW20 or LS3 for sale not already on Wings and Wheels, I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks, I know this topic has been brought up before, but I am in the final stages of preparing for a purchase before the 2019 season gets into full swing and would like to get some final advice before pulling the trigger on this purchase.
  #2  
Old April 1st 19, 04:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

As always buy the glider with the best trailer. I would not rule out the Ventus. I have flown the ASW20 and the Ventus. I found them both to be similar. I would not buy either unless they have winglets. The Ventus b had automatic hookups, where the 20a may have manual hookups, especially on the elevator.

The LS3 has heavy wings, and significantly lower performance than either the Ventus or 20, especially at higher speeds.

In the 2nd generation gliders I would likely pick:
1. Ventus with winglets
2. Discus
3. ASW20 with winglets
4. LS4
5. LS3a

  #3  
Old April 1st 19, 04:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

The LS3 (all models) will have the requirement for the annual subscription fee for factory support. In spite of the heavy wings, I really like my LS3.

RC


  #4  
Old April 1st 19, 05:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Leonard[_2_]
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

For the record, you guys all like to bash on them about their "annual fee". It is 245 Euro. Yeah, the other manufacturers aren't doing this, but I sure as heck wouldn't rule out a plane I am looking at spending upwards of 25K on because there is an extra $275 per year in expense of ownership. Heck, you might even find parts are cheaper for supporting an older LS under contract than an older Schleicher. Maybe not. But I wouldn't rule them out just because of that little bit.

YMMV,
Steve Leonard
LS6 serial 6037
N511M
Most recent sailplane to have been flown by a US Pilot (not me!) to a World Championship.
  #5  
Old April 1st 19, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

No bashing here. I wouldn't rule them out either.

RC

  #6  
Old April 1st 19, 05:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael N.
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

Ok but what is the performance comparison or flying comparison between the LS3a and ASW20a?

Also, not wanting to bring up an old discussion, but how much harder to fly is the Ventus B? Is it harder or just more tiresome?

Also, it was mentioned to buy with winglets. I'm not sure this group of gliders, with winglets is available in the $25k price range. If you know of one, that is decently equipped with good finish, I'd like to hear about it.

I do need to target an aircraft that has a good serviceable finish, and decent electronics for X-country. Is that doable for $25k?

Thanks for any suggestions or information.
  #7  
Old April 1st 19, 05:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

There are two payment levels for DG service, 245E and 175E. The cheaper price gets only electronic copies of manuals you print yourself.
LS3A does not have the heavy wings of the LS3 due to splitting the flaps and ailerons.
  #8  
Old April 1st 19, 06:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

There is a good article about LS3's by Greg Arnold he

http://soaringcafe.com/2011/01/used-...ne-review-ls3/

RC

  #9  
Old April 1st 19, 09:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Per Carlin
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

Most of us LS and older DG owners have not signed the service contract. How often you you need spare parts? They can often be found from an crasched glider. There has not been any new mandatory TN for my LS1 in about 20-years, wht pay 175€/year for a paper that will never show up?

I would not spend to much time on comparing performace on gliders that are 30 years old, they perform more or less equal.
Buy a nice looking glider with instruments and trailer that suits you budget, then do what gliders are designed to do = Go flyging
  #10  
Old April 1st 19, 01:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Hodgetts
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Default Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?

Don't rule out a Ventus B .... I've owned a half share in one for four
years,
it's a delight to rigg (lift-top trailer) cf wings are light(ish) and the
thin
section is less affected by rain and bugs. The trialing edge airbrakes can

give you a 4.5 to 1 glide(!) which can be very useful.
Yes, there are things to be aware of (don't close the brakes near the
ground!) but possibly no more than with other older flapped gliders. At my

weight, 85Kg, the stall seems innocuous.
Not particularly tiring to fly.
And I almost forgot - with the 16.6m tips it soars and goes really, really

well!
Paul Hodgetts



 




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