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The end of the Naval Air Reserves???
It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun
while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. from July 7 Navy Times Issue Date: July 07, 2003 Proposed cuts to Reserve aviation face opposition By Christopher Munsey Times staff writer The Naval Reserve Association and members of Congress oppose the planned decommissioning of a Naval Air Reserve F/A-18 Hornet strike fighter squadron in the next fiscal year - and worry about even deeper future cuts to Reserve aviation. The cuts, reportedly being considered as Navy officials plan the service's budget over the next five fiscal years, are significant, said retired Navy Capt. Ike Puzon, association spokesman. According to planning information the association obtained from Navy sources, the Naval Air Reserve would lose its maritime patrol, helicopter and strike fighter squadrons, Puzon said. Only the Naval Air Reserve fleet logistics squadrons, plus Electronic Attack Squadron 209, Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron 77 and Fighter Squadrons Composite 12 and 13 would be spared. The decommissioning schedule includes: Fiscal 2004: VFA-203. Fiscal 2005: Patrol Squadrons 64 and 92; VFA-201 and VFA-204; VAW-78; Helicopter Antisubmarine Squadron 75; Helicopter Antisubmarine Squadron Light 60; Helicopter Combat Support Squadron 85; and Helicopter Combat Support Special Squadrons 4 and 5. Fiscal 2006: VP-62 and VP-66. Fiscal 2007: VP-65 and VP-69. Fiscal 2008: VP-94. Aside from quick savings, the planned cuts don't make sense, Puzon said, given the nation's security needs. As a reason for maintaining the current Reserve structure, Puzon cited the deployments of VFA-201 and detachments from HCS 4 and HCS-5 for Operation Iraqi Freedom. Mobilized in October, VFA-201 deployed with Carrier Air Wing 8 aboard the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt; its aircraft conducted bombing missions over Iraq. Eight HH-60H Seahawk helicopters and 180 people from HCS-4 and HCS-5, trained in combat search-and-rescue and naval special warfare operations, deployed to the eastern Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf this spring. Those deployments show that the Reserve's aircraft and personnel are a valuable "insurance policy" for the Navy, said retired Rear Adm. Steve Keith, the association's executive director. "You need it; you never know when you're going to use it," Keith said. Asked to comment on possible future cuts, Naval Reserve officials would only say that funding is provided for two of the Reserve's three strike fighter squadrons in the coming fiscal year, as part of the Navy and Marine Corps tactical aviation integration plan. "No decision has been made of which squadron will be decommissioned in FY 2004, and it is premature to speculate about decisions regarding force alignment for FY '05 and FY '06," said Vice Adm. John Totushek, director of the Naval Reserve, in a prepared statement. Senators and representatives are concerned about the cuts. In a letter sent June 20 to the chairmen of the Senate and House Armed Services committees, Sen. Zell Miller, D-Ga., asked for support for language requiring the secretary of the Navy to submit two reports 90 days before any reductions to Reserve assets occur. The reports would clarify the Navy's aviation force structure plan for the next five fiscal years and explain plans for better integrating the Reserve into active-component operations. |
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On 2 Jul 2003 18:12:34 -0700, (John Larson)
wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
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"vzlion" wrote in message ... On 2 Jul 2003 18:12:34 -0700, (John Larson) wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. The biggest reason for these decoms is to distribute their aircraft to the active duty squadrons. We are barely holding our own on the attrition/procurement battle. Getting these assets from the reserves will help keep the VP community alive until MMA is online (crossed fingers). I'm sure the other communities are in pretty dire straits as well. I hope that many of these squadrons will return when their active duty brethren have the airframes they need. What this should really drive home to all is the danger of using the Pentagon to balance the Nation's budget. You may save in the near term, but at what cost later? Giz |
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In article ,
"Giz" wrote: "vzlion" wrote in message ... On 2 Jul 2003 18:12:34 -0700, (John Larson) wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. --Mike |
#5
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message ... In article , "Giz" wrote: "vzlion" wrote in message ... On 2 Jul 2003 18:12:34 -0700, (John Larson) wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. --Mike Whatever, believe it or not there are issues that we are more interested in than on base housing, larger pay raises, ect. I'd like parts to keep my bird in the air and FMC. The issues you speak of don't mean **** if we don't come back. I'm certainly not overpaid, but at the same time I'm not on foodstamps or know any who are. I know that they are out there, but they would be on foodstamps in the civilian world as well. I hope better things for their future, but first I want the best equipment in the world to do my job. Would you want to show up with the second best system? The Dems never talk about these issues, since ultimately it means that some defense contractor (not my favorite people either) is going to make a profit. We should streamline our procurement system some, but what we shouldn't do is stop buying. Just the thoughts of a Naval Aircrewman in a platform facing some Clinton era budget issues. Giz |
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In article ,
"Giz" wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. Whatever, believe it or not there are issues that we are more interested in than on base housing, larger pay raises, ect. These are active duty issues; not veterans ones. Veterans are more interested in keeping benfits or benefit eligibility for something like a service-connected disability (maybe taking a bullet or their country or permanent disability from any number of combatant or peacetime functions). I'd like parts to keep my bird in the air and FMC. The issues you speak of don't mean **** if we don't come back. I'm certainly not overpaid, but at the same time I'm not on foodstamps or know any who are. I know that they are out there, Great, but we're talking about veterans here. Do you undertand the difference between active duty and veteran? Veterans have already done there time. It is they who Bush Jr., like his pappy before him, are slashing benefits for, the civilian world as well. I hope better things for their future, but first I want the best equipment in the world to do my job. Would you want to show up with the second best system? The Dems never talk about these issues, since ultimately it means that some defense contractor (not my favorite people either) is going to make a profit. Yes, and while active duty (bless their souls) eke on by....the civilian fat cat defense industry makes a killing so that their CEO friends of our politicians can send their kids, who would never stoop to the level of taking arms for their country, to the best private schools where they can booze up womanize up, graduate, and get some position of power where they can, in the future, send somebody else's lower middle class and lower classs kids to do the fighting and dying. They'll say nice things about these kids while they're doing it...but will turn around and slash their benefits at the blink of an eye. We should streamline our procurement system some, but what we shouldn't do is stop buying. Just the thoughts of a Naval Aircrewman in a platform facing some Clinton era budget issues. Well this former Naval Aircrewman is facing up to both Bush's budget issues....like the increasing of Voc Rehab disabled vet entitlement from 10% to 20% for eligibility and much much more. --Mike |
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message
How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. The "gutting" of the Naval Reserve goes all the way back to the Carter years. I don't recall him as a friend of vets, either. On the other hand the idea that two years as a draftee entitles you to a lifetime of benefits is a bit much, too. I know a BUNCH of people who exist on military disabilities with VERY questionable bases. I did my time (10 years Active, 14 Reserve), got paid for what I did (mostly), and will get a check every month beginning in April of 2006. Since I live in an area where the closest thing we have to a "military installation" is an ANG Base I won't get to use a lot of the "benefits" to which I am entitled. I blame neither Republican nor Democrat for that; my choice of residence is my choice. My wife also gets her check, after 5 Active and 19 Reserve. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. So, what else is new?!?!?!?!?! ;-) Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. I guess you are going to vote Libertarian next time out. Right? Soldiers (and the rest) have been pawns since the beginning of the reality of the "rich man's war and the poor man's fight." And that goes almost back to the time of Og and Mog. More to the point, loss of an internal Reserve hardware capability is unlikely to EVER return. The RESFORONS have always been "poor relations" but made do with what they had and sometimes embarassed Active Duty types in head to head competition. The Active Duty types have, in my personal presence, often noted the vast "wastage" of funds on the Reserve hardware units. (To be completely fair, a fair number have also "looked behind the curtain" and seen the reasons why hardware units are a Very Good Thing.) The likelyhood of facing the hords of the Red Army (or the late, unlamented Soviet Navy) is very small. But there are still places where you can lose a bunch of aircraft and people in a hurry and have to replace them the same way (a "dust up" in North Korea comes to mind). The complexity of modern aircraft means that the "WWII Approach" of 90 day wonder to Fleet Fighter Pilot in a year (or so) is unlikely to EVER be seen again. This means that you have to have a "well" of trained people to draw on in time of crisis. The REFORON/SRU hardware units filled that need. When they "go away" so will a cheap solution to an expensive problem. Bill Kambic Formerly of VS-73 (the SRU part whose numbers escape me) and VP-93 (ditto), NAF Detroit, 1974-1978 |
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message ... In article , "Giz" wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. Whatever, believe it or not there are issues that we are more interested in than on base housing, larger pay raises, ect. These are active duty issues; not veterans ones. Veterans are more interested in keeping benfits or benefit eligibility for something like a service-connected disability (maybe taking a bullet or their country or permanent disability from any number of combatant or peacetime functions). I'd like parts to keep my bird in the air and FMC. The issues you speak of don't mean **** if we don't come back. I'm certainly not overpaid, but at the same time I'm not on foodstamps or know any who are. I know that they are out there, Great, but we're talking about veterans here. Do you undertand the difference between active duty and veteran? Veterans have already done there time. It is they who Bush Jr., like his pappy before him, are slashing benefits for, You brought the veteran's issues into a thread that was discussing the current and future state of Navy Air. Not exactly a "veteran's issue". Thank you for your service and have a happy 4th, but if you can't accept that this thread will follow along on the issues it is concerned with, then find somewhere else to grind your axe or start a new thread. Giz |
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"Bill Kambic" wrote in message ... "Michael Wise" wrote in message How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. The "gutting" of the Naval Reserve goes all the way back to the Carter years. I don't recall him as a friend of vets, either. On the other hand the idea that two years as a draftee entitles you to a lifetime of benefits is a bit much, too. I know a BUNCH of people who exist on military disabilities with VERY questionable bases. I did my time (10 years Active, 14 Reserve), got paid for what I did (mostly), and will get a check every month beginning in April of 2006. Since I live in an area where the closest thing we have to a "military installation" is an ANG Base I won't get to use a lot of the "benefits" to which I am entitled. I blame neither Republican nor Democrat for that; my choice of residence is my choice. My wife also gets her check, after 5 Active and 19 Reserve. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. So, what else is new?!?!?!?!?! ;-) Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. I guess you are going to vote Libertarian next time out. Right? Soldiers (and the rest) have been pawns since the beginning of the reality of the "rich man's war and the poor man's fight." And that goes almost back to the time of Og and Mog. More to the point, loss of an internal Reserve hardware capability is unlikely to EVER return. The RESFORONS have always been "poor relations" but made do with what they had and sometimes embarassed Active Duty types in head to head competition. The Active Duty types have, in my personal presence, often noted the vast "wastage" of funds on the Reserve hardware units. (To be completely fair, a fair number have also "looked behind the curtain" and seen the reasons why hardware units are a Very Good Thing.) The likelyhood of facing the hords of the Red Army (or the late, unlamented Soviet Navy) is very small. But there are still places where you can lose a bunch of aircraft and people in a hurry and have to replace them the same way (a "dust up" in North Korea comes to mind). The complexity of modern aircraft means that the "WWII Approach" of 90 day wonder to Fleet Fighter Pilot in a year (or so) is unlikely to EVER be seen again. This means that you have to have a "well" of trained people to draw on in time of crisis. The REFORON/SRU hardware units filled that need. When they "go away" so will a cheap solution to an expensive problem. Bill Kambic Formerly of VS-73 (the SRU part whose numbers escape me) and VP-93 (ditto), NAF Detroit, 1974-1978 Hey Bill, are you an A-dub? I'm one of the active duty types that has seen behind the curtain. I left active duty after my first 4 and joined the reserves (SAU VP0545), but came back to active duty after 4.5 there. I don't view the reserves as wasteful, but I do view them as somewhat of a luxury. We shouldn't have reserve squadrons instead of active squadrons. A choice that the VP community would be facing in the near future if we didn't make use of the aircraft in the reserve units. I do believe that the SAU concept will be making a return to the Naval Air Reserve, and hopefully we can reform some of the units when MMA is online. Giz |
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In article ,
"Giz" wrote: It will be a sad day when the all these squadrons are gone. It was fun while it lasted. John Larson LCDR(Ret) VP-90 1984-1994, NAS Glenview IL. Big surprise. I thought Clinton was bad, Bush is even worse. He already cut Veterans Benefits by millions of dollars while telling our troops what a good job they are doing. Talk about 2-faced. At ther rate he's going I won't be surprised I've been a republican all my life, but I have to look at this adminustration and ask "What has he done for the country?" Walt CPO, UNS, Ret. He can't fix 8 years of abuse overnight. How does slashing veterans benefits come anything close to approaching a fix for what you call "8 years of abuse"? Face it, Bush Jr., like his pappy, doesn't give two ****s about vets. He talks the armchair "Rah rah military" talk from the safety and comfort of somebody from a family wealthy and connected enough to ensure never being sent in harms way...but at the end of the day, he's like the rest of those do-nothing privileged stooges at the top and given the choice of protecting his the already obscene profits of his lackey friends and contributors or funding programs to benefit those who served their country and even shed blood for it...will always side with his cronies. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference...servicemen are just their pawns....although Republicans are pretty good about lying to deny that. Whatever, believe it or not there are issues that we are more interested in than on base housing, larger pay raises, ect. These are active duty issues; not veterans ones. Veterans are more interested in keeping benfits or benefit eligibility for something like a service-connected disability (maybe taking a bullet or their country or permanent disability from any number of combatant or peacetime functions). I'd like parts to keep my bird in the air and FMC. The issues you speak of don't mean **** if we don't come back. I'm certainly not overpaid, but at the same time I'm not on foodstamps or know any who are. I know that they are out there, Great, but we're talking about veterans here. Do you undertand the difference between active duty and veteran? Veterans have already done there time. It is they who Bush Jr., like his pappy before him, are slashing benefits for, You brought the veteran's issues into a thread that was discussing the current and future state of Navy Air. Not exactly a "veteran's issue". Thank you for your service and have a happy 4th, but if you can't accept that this thread will follow along on the issues it is concerned with, then find somewhere else to grind your axe or start a new thread. False, Walt brought veterans issues into the thread and I responded to that. Thank you for your service as well, but if you're reading comprehension skills are that off, perhaps you should avoid participating in any thread. --Mike |
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