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#21
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"Marc Reeve" wrote in message ... Pooh Bear wrote: Wasn't HMS Illustrious slated to accompany them, until she grounded? HMS Indomitable which was carrying Sea Hurricanes of 880 squadron and Fulmars of 800 Squadron IRC Keith |
#22
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Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Marc Reeve" wrote in message ... Pooh Bear wrote: Wasn't HMS Illustrious slated to accompany them, until she grounded? HMS Indomitable which was carrying Sea Hurricanes of 880 squadron and Fulmars of 800 Squadron IRC That's the one. According to this link, it suggests that she might have been sunk too - which is odd in view of how useful aircraft would have been in the encounter - and the fact that the site claims to represent the fleet air arm ! http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Sh...domitable.html Graham |
#23
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Impressive but is there even the slightest chance of hitting a ship
22 nm away? Sure, if it's at anchor. Sorry, I'm extremely skeptical about that. What would be the angle between the bow and the stern of a very large ship, from 22 msiles away? A common tactic on all sides was lying off an anchorage and plinking the sitting ducks. Can you cite some examples from a standard WW II history? vince norris |
#24
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Ragnar wrote:
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Mike Dargan" wrote in message news:lyr2d.206258$Fg5.67066@attbi_s53... The Pearl Harbor debacle is often blamed on lack of resources caused by inadequate support from the politicians. Wrong. Short and Kimmel had both quantitative and qualitative superiority but were hopelessly inept. While agreeing on the ineptitiude its clear that the IJN had a clear superiority in terms of modern fighter aircraft. Dig out Gordon Prange's book and do the numbers. P40s were adequate against the Japanese in China, thousands of miles from their supply depots. Why wouldn't they bave been adequate over Oahu? Also, why wasn't Kimmel running patrols? He didn't have resources to cover 360 degrees, but he certainly could have covered the NW quadrant for a couple of hundred miles. Washington had been bombing him with warnings for weeks. Geez. Couldn't he have just read the newspapers? Cheers --mike They also had better ships in many cases. |
#25
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Tom Cervo wrote:
The Pearl Harbor debacle is often blamed on lack of resources caused by inadequate support from the politicians. Wrong. Short and Kimmel had both quantitative and qualitative superiority but were hopelessly inept. Actually, they were probably quite able. They were simply expecting an attack in the Far East, and that PH might face sabotage or submarine attack as the base for the response for that attack. That remark (from Frank Knox?) about no, they must mean the Phillippines, shows that it didn't stop with them. They were running the biggest base in the Pacific and couldn't imagine that the squinty eyed Japs would be able to find them. --mike |
#26
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Tom Cervo wrote:
The Pearl Harbor debacle is often blamed on lack of resources caused by inadequate support from the politicians. Wrong. Short and Kimmel had both quantitative and qualitative superiority but were hopelessly inept. Actually, they were probably quite able. They were simply expecting an attack in the Far East, and that PH might face sabotage or submarine attack as the base for the response for that attack. That remark (from Frank Knox?) about no, they must mean the Phillippines, shows that it didn't stop with them. And another thing, if they expected an attack in the Phillipines, why was the "American Caesar" caught thumbing his asshole while the Japs shot up his planes on the ground? Cheers --mike |
#27
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Cub Driver wrote:
On 15 Sep 2004 23:25:48 -0700, (Eunometic) wrote: The US Navy had fallen well behined in torpedo technology. It was not just the performance specs, either. The USN torpedoes were inacurrate, often running so deep that they passed under the enemy ship. More than one American sub was sunk by its own torpedo. See www.warbirdforum.com/okane.htm Dick O'Kane (the subject of that book review) recalled that when word went back to Washington about the faulty torpedoes, the brass blamed the sub skippers for their tactics rather than examing the torpedo for defects. The problem was with the magnetic fuses. Again, the dimwits in charge refused to do proper testing. The tests were expensive and the Navy knew that their white engineers had innate superiority to gooks. This oversight, along with some strange attack doctrine, extended the war and cost us some sailors. On the other hand, the Navy's analog computer (TDC), used for solving targeting problems, was quite good. Cheers. --mike all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
#28
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Dig out Gordon Prange's book and do the numbers. P40s were adequate
against the Japanese in China, thousands of miles from their supply depots. Why wouldn't they bave been adequate over Oahu? Also, why wasn't Kimmel running patrols? He didn't have resources to cover 360 degrees, but he certainly could have covered the NW quadrant for a couple of hundred miles. Washington had been bombing him with warnings for weeks. Geez. Couldn't he have just read the newspapers? Cheers Who ordered Kimmel to abort exercise and bring ships back to anchorage area immediately? Who ordered to abort Halseys planned search and destroy Operation and moved precious carriers away from PH? Who witheld information from Kimmel and Short even though they always know the whereabouts and the intent of Japanase fleet? Unlike Al-Queda Japan was not an US proxy they were real opponents so nothing should be done to alert japanase. Because if they were deterred from making the attack whole Anglo plan would collapse. Since our minority Anglos have no republican guard divisions like Saddam to control and oppress majority ,they must depend on PSYOPs like USS Maine,Pearl Harbor,Operation Northwoods and 9/11 for the same purpose. Killing US citizens or allowing others to kill US citizens is a time proven method of our minority Anglos. BTW Stinnett and Tolands books shed light to the Anglo PSYOP known as Pearl Harbor attack. |
#29
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Denyav wrote:
Dig out Gordon Prange's book and do the numbers. P40s were adequate against the Japanese in China, thousands of miles from their supply depots. Why wouldn't they bave been adequate over Oahu? Also, why wasn't Kimmel running patrols? He didn't have resources to cover 360 degrees, but he certainly could have covered the NW quadrant for a couple of hundred miles. Washington had been bombing him with warnings for weeks. Geez. Couldn't he have just read the newspapers? Cheers Who ordered Kimmel to abort exercise and bring ships back to anchorage area immediately? Neocons? Who ordered to abort Halseys planned search and destroy Operation and moved precious carriers away from PH? George Bush? Who witheld information from Kimmel and Short even though they always know the whereabouts and the intent of Japanase fleet? The mufdvr? Unlike Al-Queda Japan was not an US proxy they were real opponents so nothing should be done to alert japanase. I prefer my japanase on the side, please. And hold the mayonese. Because if they were deterred from making the attack whole Anglo plan would collapse. Indeed. Since our minority Anglos have no republican guard divisions like Saddam to control and oppress majority ,they must depend on PSYOPs like USS Maine,Pearl Harbor,Operation Northwoods and 9/11 for the same purpose. Precisely! Killing US citizens or allowing others to kill US citizens is a time proven method of our minority Anglos. BTW Stinnett and Tolands books shed light to the Anglo PSYOP known as Pearl Harbor attack. Hmmm. How many Tolands does it take to screw up a PSYOP? Cheers --mike |
#30
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Who ordered Kimmel to abort exercise and bring ships back to anchorage
area immediately? Neocons? Stark Who ordered to abort Halseys planned search and destroy Operation and moved precious carriers away from PH? George Bush? Stark Who witheld information from Kimmel and Short even though they always know the whereabouts and the intent of Japanase fleet? The mufdvr? Marshall&Stark I prefer my japanase on the side, please. And hold the mayonese. You can consider yourself lucky as long as they compete with US using Toyotas,Lexuses Hondas ,Pioneers etc. |
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