Letters Asking to Buy My Glider

Marc Ramsey wrote:
ContestID67 wrote:
I wonder aloud if this has to do with the desireability (I'd like to
think) of my sailplane, a DG-101G ELAN. Obviously the ship is not the
high point of aerodynamics but there are four distinct reasons why I
think the above;

1) When I bought the ship it was a race with two other pilots to buy
the same ship. I happened to be quickest on the trigger with a phone
call. Luckily I had a friend point it out to me.

2) Repeated ads in Soaring for "DG owners we have buyers for your
ship". I don't see that with other makes and models.

3) I don't see them for sale in Soaring, Mara's, etc.

4) I keep getting mail from interested buyers (and they are better
worded than Mara's scam emails).

As a former DG-101G owner, I can tell you that quite a few people know
that they are one of the best buys in glass gliders in the US $20K to
$30K range, if you can find one. And, I'll also say that, properly
sealed (mine had sealed pushrods, S-seals on the ailerons, and even
routed channels for the mylar), I used to be able to pretty consistently
outclimb and outrun any LS-4, Pegase, or ASW-19 I came across 8^)

Marc
As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.

We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.

Frank Whiteley

wrote:
Hello John,
No, I do not believe that what you are getting to be a SCAM.
If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type to become
available, it might take a while and someone else could beat
you to it.
I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter and a
member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the US who
had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
I just suggested to another club member to decide on what
sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write a letter to
the owners and see if they are interested in selling their glider.

Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to get someone
to sell their glider.

Randy

N304RS

Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use. Nobody would part
with them. But it's a good strategy.

Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley wrote:
As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.

We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.

1) DG-100 != DG-100G (101).
2) You gotta properly seal them to make them fly to their potential (the
101 Johnson tested wasn't sealed at all, which was stated in the article).
3) DG offered (still?) an inexpensive retrofit kit with 300 style
upswept wing tips (which mine didn't have) that got rid of the downward
twist and significantly improved high speed performance, but there was
no point to flying that fast, even with water.

No, I couldn't outrun Jantar Std 2s and 3s, but I'd catch and pass them
by the top of the next thermal. Mine would eat the local LS-4s for lunch...

Marc

There are currently 2 Juniors (SZD51-1)for sale in
the UK at reasonable prices and it doesnt cost as much
as you think to ship.Try www.gliderpilot.net

At 06:24 28 November 2006, Frank Whiteley wrote:

wrote:
Hello John,
No, I do not believe that what you are getting to
be a SCAM.
If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type
to become
available, it might take a while and someone else
could beat
you to it.
I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter
and a
member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the
US who
had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
I just suggested to another club member to decide
on what
sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write
a letter to
the owners and see if they are interested in selling
their glider.

Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to
get someone
to sell their glider.

Randy

N304RS

Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use.
Nobody would part
with them. But it's a good strategy.

Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.

Frank Whiteley

Marc Ramsey wrote:
Frank Whiteley wrote:
As a former DG-100 owner, I liked the finish, the light handling, the
ultimate strength, the durable finish, the warm toes when high,
payload, and the high rough air VNe. The downward twist of the wing
tips at high VNe is extremely interesting. It's narrow at the hip,
which discourages some and makes it a bit unsuitable for club use.
Later testing showed they were at least 10% under claimed best L/D. No
way they'll outrun a Jantar Std 2.

We looked at one a couple of years ago. Due to maintenance issues and
a substandard trailer we weren't willing to offer as much as asked, so
we walked, happily. There was a nice one for sale in Texas, but we
passed as some didn't want the split canopy. We bought an LS-4a.

1) DG-100 != DG-100G (101).
2) You gotta properly seal them to make them fly to their potential (the
101 Johnson tested wasn't sealed at all, which was stated in the article).
3) DG offered (still?) an inexpensive retrofit kit with 300 style
upswept wing tips (which mine didn't have) that got rid of the downward
twist and significantly improved high speed performance, but there was
no point to flying that fast, even with water.

No, I couldn't outrun Jantar Std 2s and 3s, but I'd catch and pass them
by the top of the next thermal. Mine would eat the local LS-4s for lunch...

Marc
Other than canopy and tailplane, what's the real diff? IIRC, same
wing, same fuselage, same A/R. G/101 had better cockpit protection.
Nothing indicated on the DG web site that would indicate a real
performance distinction. The one I partnered in held the NV 100k
record for a time. True the split canopy made sealing a bit of an
issue, the front hinged is preferred, but that's the only substantial
difference WRT performance. Either way, it's a nice, strong glider.

Frank

Thanks, but not in the market at the moment.

Searching gliderpilot.net I found one in the UK listed this month, this
year, another in Poland listed January 2006, plus a UK club looking for
a Junior since 1999. Some of those folks should talk or pull their
ads.

UKP=$1.95+ this morning;^*

Frank




Andy Melville wrote:
There are currently 2 Juniors (SZD51-1)for sale in
the UK at reasonable prices and it doesnt cost as much
as you think to ship.Try www.gliderpilot.net

At 06:24 28 November 2006, Frank Whiteley wrote:

wrote:
Hello John,
No, I do not believe that what you are getting to
be a SCAM.
If you have to wait for a particular sailplane type
to become
available, it might take a while and someone else
could beat
you to it.
I purchased a 304CZ last year from writting a letter
and a
member in our club wrote a letter to everyone in the
US who
had a LS8-18 and got 2 replies. He now owns a LS8-18.
I just suggested to another club member to decide
on what
sailplanes he really wants to purchase and to write
a letter to
the owners and see if they are interested in selling
their glider.

Sometimes you just have to get the ball rolling to
get someone
to sell their glider.

Randy

N304RS

Tried that to find a SZD 51-1 Junior for club use.
Nobody would part
with them. But it's a good strategy.

Now that the E=$1.31+, don't expect any bargains.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley wrote:
Other than canopy and tailplane, what's the real diff? IIRC, same
wing, same fuselage, same A/R. G/101 had better cockpit protection.

Cockpit was rearranged for safety, better ergonomics, and to accommodate
larger pilots. Water ballast system changed. Better venting from the
cockpit through to the tail. Spoiler box changed for better sealing.
ELAN put some effort into refining their production methods, so the G
models generally have smoother wings than the DG produced 100s.

Nothing indicated on the DG web site that would indicate a real
performance distinction. The one I partnered in held the NV 100k
record for a time. True the split canopy made sealing a bit of an
issue, the front hinged is preferred, but that's the only substantial
difference WRT performance.

Prep is everything. Many were purchased later in the production cycle
when it was being sold as a cheap first glider (new purchase price was
$12000US from ELAN). As such, many lacked niceties such as mylar seals,
ballast bags, etc. Mine was rather obsessively worked on by its prior
owners, which resulted in quite decent performance when flown within its
limitations (i.e., one must resist the temptation to cruise at over 90
knots with water).

Either way, it's a nice, strong glider.

True, but it is a bit more than that. By the time I was ready to sell,
I had a list of people who wanted to buy it, and made a nice profit in
the end...

Marc

It is good to hear in the above dialog that, while the DG-100 series
isn't a rocket ship, it holds its value (especially the DG-101G) due to
its desireability for various reasons. That should make my wife
happier about the purchase of gliders in general.

Note that my DG-101G was flown in a regional contest by a past Polish
national champion (Janusz Centka) to a first place finish in Sports
Class. That says to me it isn't always the airplane, it's the
pilot...at least to a certain extent.

I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?

- John

ContestID67 wrote:
I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?

300, yes, they have held their value pretty consistently over the past
decade or so. The 303 is a bit more complicated, as it is in the price
territory of perceived "better" standard class gliders like earlier
Discus and ASW-24 models. My 303 was definitely more capable glider
than my 101, but the increment in performance and fun factor wasn't
really worth twice the price to me. In terms of bang for the buck, the
101 beat it by a wide margin...

Marc

I used to own a DG-100 and thought it very nice flying ship. The only
thing I didn't really like was the two piece canopy. I did my diamond
goal/gold distance in it and averaged almost 100 kph without trying too
hard, and that was dry. I had to sell it in the mid 90's and since
flew an ASW-20 for a while and a Ventus B for a few flights one year.
The 20 and Ventus were very good gliders and fast but when I was able
to buy another glider I wanted a DG-202 or a DG-101G and sent some
letters and emails. No one was selling but I ended up with a new
friend out of sending the letters.

After a year or so I ended up with a DG-300 and am very happy with it.
The previous owner had winglets installed. It will probably climb in a
gopher fart (with the air vent closed). The 101G is a good value in
the low to mid 20's but the trailers can be a crap shoot. The 300 is
an awfully nice glider and maybe better value. I've also flown a 303
acro once and from what I remember it wasn't much different than the
300.




On Nov 28, 11:53 am, Marc Ramsey wrote:
ContestID67 wrote:
I am thinking of moving up to a DG-300 or DG-303 (winglets!) and wonder
if it also holds its value as the DG-101 does?300, yes, they have held their value pretty consistently over the past
decade or so. The 303 is a bit more complicated, as it is in the price
territory of perceived "better" standard class gliders like earlier
Discus and ASW-24 models. My 303 was definitely more capable glider
than my 101, but the increment in performance and fun factor wasn't
really worth twice the price to me. In terms of bang for the buck, the
101 beat it by a wide margin...

Marc