Is FLARM helpful?

On the technical side, I take good care that my antenna coverage is acceptable in any direction (which requires more than one antenna on a carbon fuselage).

Bert
Ventus cM TW

Bert,
Could you tell us where you place your multiple antennas on your carbon fuselage, and the type of antennas you are using.
Thanks,
Mark

Am Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 17:34:47 UTC+1 schrieb :
On the technical side, I take good care that my antenna coverage is acceptable in any direction (which requires more than one antenna on a carbon fuselage).

Bert
Ventus cM TW

Bert,
Could you tell us where you place your multiple antennas on your carbon fuselage, and the type of antennas you are using.
Thanks,
Mark

I have an antenna splitter; one antenna is placed as a stripe antenna in the canopy to the side behind my head, and the other antenna is the standard "toothpick" placed next to a gear door.

Works well.

Bert
Ventus cM TW

At 21:44 24 November 2015, Andy Blackburn wrote:
... Since you've owned several I guess it's safe to say there's
more benefit
than downside. ...

Sorry to disappoint: I haven't owned any. These were 3 different
units in 2 club-owned two-seaters, flown in the French Alps
where Flarm was mandated by all the clubs in the area.

On balance Flarm *may* indeed be beneficial. But the purpose
of my post was to point out that there *are* significant
downsides. Pilots should be aware of these and avoid indulging
in gratuitously risky practices, under the illusion that Flarm will
protect them. They should also avoid making vigorous evasive
manoeuvres in response to Flarm alone: it is imperative to see
the threat before making anything other than a gentle
manoeuvre, perhaps a small wing-waggle to aid conspicuity.
This applies not only to threats from behind / blind spots. I am
sure that vigorous manoeuvres (unexpected by the other pilot,
who could see that the situation was under control) will result in
collisions - or perhaps already have ("such a shame ... and they
both had Flarm")

Finally I should say that my initial expectation of Flarm (and
BTW I love the technology!) was that it would significantly
reduce effective lookout - I'm afraid that's just my view of
human nature. That may or may not have happened - how could
I tell? However, as soon as I flew with Flarm, I was shocked to
discover what crazy manoeuvres other pilots were making,
which I had not experienced before, and which disappeared
when I next flew without Flarm.

... I guess it depends on how you define [false alarm] ...

No, I didn't mean warnings given about empty space! I meant
collision warnings about a glider opposite me in the thermal, or
established in another, distant, thermal, or 500+ feet above or
below, etc. In other words, when no collision risk existed or
developed, regardless of how 'competitive' I felt.

J.

At 22:59 24 November 2015, Ramy wrote:
One thing to point out is that James is likely referring to the
European
Flarm while most of us referring to Powerflarm which I
understand is
superior especially in the user interface side (butterfly display
etc) and as such
I believe better visually distinguishing between alerts and collision
alarm
Ramy

Indeed, I have not come across a Powerflarm unit, and don't know
what the differences are. But I don't feel that there is any
ambiguity in 'European' Flarm indications.
J.

Flarm just announced a new external antenna recommended for carbon and metal planes (Flarm and Powerflarm frequencies).

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-8, James Metcalfe wrote:
At 21:44 24 November 2015, Andy Blackburn wrote:
... Since you've owned several I guess it's safe to say there's
more benefit
than downside. ...

Sorry to disappoint: I haven't owned any. These were 3 different
units in 2 club-owned two-seaters, flown in the French Alps
where Flarm was mandated by all the clubs in the area.

On balance Flarm *may* indeed be beneficial. But the purpose
of my post was to point out that there *are* significant
downsides. Pilots should be aware of these and avoid indulging
in gratuitously risky practices, under the illusion that Flarm will
protect them. They should also avoid making vigorous evasive
manoeuvres in response to Flarm alone: it is imperative to see
the threat before making anything other than a gentle
manoeuvre, perhaps a small wing-waggle to aid conspicuity.
This applies not only to threats from behind / blind spots. I am
sure that vigorous manoeuvres (unexpected by the other pilot,
who could see that the situation was under control) will result in
collisions - or perhaps already have ("such a shame ... and they
both had Flarm")

Finally I should say that my initial expectation of Flarm (and
BTW I love the technology!) was that it would significantly
reduce effective lookout - I'm afraid that's just my view of
human nature. That may or may not have happened - how could
I tell? However, as soon as I flew with Flarm, I was shocked to
discover what crazy manoeuvres other pilots were making,
which I had not experienced before, and which disappeared
when I next flew without Flarm.

... I guess it depends on how you define [false alarm] ...

No, I didn't mean warnings given about empty space! I meant
collision warnings about a glider opposite me in the thermal, or
established in another, distant, thermal, or 500+ feet above or
below, etc. In other words, when no collision risk existed or
developed, regardless of how 'competitive' I felt.

J.

I am curious about your experience with the interface. Did you just have the BF display, or was the Flarm also displaying targets on a moving map?

I have not had any Flarm warnings that would have saved a midair (3 years with it now). But I have always had Flarm targets displayed on the glide computer moving map, and so nearly always see them long before they could be considered a threat. Two times in those three years I have gotten an unexpected warning, though not close enough to require action to avoid collision. I use those events as a learning experience to see how I need to change my scans and operations, so that they do not happen again.

From this I conclude that the situational awareness, far away from an potential conflict, is more valuable for preventing potential conflicts in the first place than the actual warning facility.

Countless times that Flarm has identified and displayed glider within a km of me that I had not seen and might never have seen.

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 1:29:44 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:

From this I conclude that the situational awareness, far away from an potential conflict, is more valuable for preventing potential conflicts in the first place than the actual warning facility.


Important observation. Pilots who fly in the thermal streets and convergence lines of the western US point this out pretty regularly. Head-to-head traffic at 17,999' can easily close at 5-6 statute miles per minute. In this case particularly (low-contrast, small head-on cross-section, potential for evasion maneuvers to make things worse with crossed wings) longer range situational awareness is critical to avoiding conflicts - often with a simple radio call to coordinate. Also a good reason to register with FarmNet - how many people really would be able to properly read and call out (or even recognize) an ICAO/Flarm ID in a time-constrained conflict situation? "AA8E2F, please turn right immediately!"

9B

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 3:39:17 PM UTC-8, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 1:29:44 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:

From this I conclude that the situational awareness, far away from an potential conflict, is more valuable for preventing potential conflicts in the first place than the actual warning facility.


Important observation. Pilots who fly in the thermal streets and convergence lines of the western US point this out pretty regularly. Head-to-head traffic at 17,999' can easily close at 5-6 statute miles per minute. In this case particularly (low-contrast, small head-on cross-section, potential for evasion maneuvers to make things worse with crossed wings) longer range situational awareness is critical to avoiding conflicts - often with a simple radio call to coordinate. Also a good reason to register with FarmNet - how many people really would be able to properly read and call out (or even recognize) an ICAO/Flarm ID in a time-constrained conflict situation? "AA8E2F, please turn right immediately!"

9B

I have also observed this situation many times in the Nephi OLC camps and contests. High closure rates and Configuring your PowerFlarm in the Stealth mode would make this situation a safety concern. It would limit the time to respond to a conflict situation. With the Stealth mode off these situation are visible for many miles and evasive action is easy.

Stealth mode on this situation is much more immediate and dangerous with little time to identify, find and respond to the threat.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:29:27 PM UTC-5, Tim Taylor wrote:
If you fly with other gliders, especially cross-country FLARM is the way to go.

I have had several alerts at high altitude and high speeds that I would have never seen the other gliders in time without FLARM.

I flew US Nats in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Three mid-airs, one fatal. Since 2012 all nats have had mostly FLARM equipped gliders, no mid-airs. I would not race without FLARM now and all our local group uses FLARM.

TT

I recall a mid air(fatal) at Uvalde, and one at Parowan. Where was the third/
There is an implied cause and effect that is partially true. To get a better sense of this implication, it would be worthwhile to look to the preceding periods of time. Data point- the last fatal mid air before Uvalde was in the mid 80's at Ephata during a 70 glider race that was winner take all for team selection.
Do not misinterpret my comment. I use Flarm, and was a very early adoptor, but get quite tired of the well meaning true zealots over selling to make their case.
UH

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:49:15 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:29:27 PM UTC-5, Tim Taylor wrote:
If you fly with other gliders, especially cross-country FLARM is the way to go.

I have had several alerts at high altitude and high speeds that I would have never seen the other gliders in time without FLARM.

I flew US Nats in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Three mid-airs, one fatal. Since 2012 all nats have had mostly FLARM equipped gliders, no mid-airs. I would not race without FLARM now and all our local group uses FLARM.

TT

I recall a mid air(fatal) at Uvalde, and one at Parowan. Where was the third/
There is an implied cause and effect that is partially true. To get a better sense of this implication, it would be worthwhile to look to the preceding periods of time. Data point- the last fatal mid air before Uvalde was in the mid 80's at Ephata during a 70 glider race that was winner take all for team selection.
Do not misinterpret my comment. I use Flarm, and was a very early adoptor, but get quite tired of the well meaning true zealots over selling to make their case.
UH

Here is the listing of all midairs for 1994-2013. There were 20 reported to FAA, so id doesn't include non-reported - which presumably would be more minor since they would unlikely include an insurance claim. It averages 1 per year. Uvalde had one fatal collision in 2010 and a non-fatal in 2012. There is some coding to show phase of flight and whether it was Glider-Glider, Glider-Towplane or Glider-GA as well as Takeoff, Landing or Mid-flight. Sorry for the poor formatting. A spreadsheet with all glider accidents in the US can be found he

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


8/17/2012 Uvalde, TX SCHLEICHER ASG29-15M F-CIFB CEN12LA553A Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
8/17/2012 Uvalde, TX SCHLEICHER ASG29-15M D-6080 CEN12LA553B Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
6/7/2012 Sparks, NV SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS N943SB WPR12LA250A Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
6/7/2012 Sparks, NV CENTRAIR C101A N101LV WPR12LA250B Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
8/4/2010 Batesville, TX ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH ASW 27-18 N8829A CEN10LA459B Fatal 1 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
8/4/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B N7470C CEN10LA459A Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
6/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHLEICHER ALEXANDER ASH 26 E N455S WPR10LA294A Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
6/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH Ventus 2CT N514TW WPR10LA294A Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
2/6/2010 Boulder, CO SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32 N2472W CEN10FA115C Fatal 3 MIDFLT FLT MID TP-GA
11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 N127AL WPR10FA068A Fatal 2 MIDLDG LDG MID G-TP
8/9/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A N777UN DEN08LA137A Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
8/9/2008 Brackettville, TX AB Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2 N110RG DEN08LA137B Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
8/28/2006 Smith, NV Schleicher ASW27-18 N7729 LAX06FA277B Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-GA
4/1/2004 Oso, WA Glaser-Dirks DG-400 N400WJ SEA04LA063B Fatal 1 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
4/1/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B N161D SEA04LA063A Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-G
12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Schleicher ASK-21 N274KS ANC04FA016B Fatal 4 MIDFLT FLT MID G-GA
5/1/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Burkhart Grob G-103 TWIN II N47938 IAD99FA041B Fatal 3 MIDFLT FLT MID G-TP
12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Let L-13 N98KK MIA99LA051B Non-Fatal 0 MIDFLT FLT MID G-GA
6/29/1996 BOULDER, CO Burkhart Grob G103C TWIN III N103LM FTW96FA279B Fatal 2 MIDLDG LDG MID G-GA
5/8/1994 ELBERT, CO ROLLADEN-SCHNEIDER LS-4 N4MN FTW94LA151 Non-Fatal 0 MIDLDG LDG MID G-TP