First fly in 1890 by Clement ADER (France)

Hello,
Just read he
http://www.americanscientist.org/tem.../assetid/28339

This is not very good to deform the history...

Bests regards

"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Just read he
http://www.americanscientist.org/tem.../assetid/28339

This is not very good to deform the history...


Do you believe history is being deformed? In what way?

"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

"Steven P. McNicoll" a =E9crit dans le =
message de news: et...
=20
"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)

=20
Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by =
using his motor.=20
It was the first "controlled" flight.=20

"Platon67" wrote in message
...

The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by using
his motor.
It was the first "controlled" flight.


Exactly. Ader is duly credited with what he achieved, but without control
flight is not particularly useful.

Platon67 wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" a écrit dans le message de news: et...

"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?


The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by using his motor.
It was the first "controlled" flight.

I'm not the greatest supporter of all the hoopla surrounding the Wrights
- they get a lot of credit that should belong to others and there is a
tendency to believe that the Wrights invented the aeroplane, full stop.

That said, the Wrights were unquestionably the first to achieve manned,
powered, sustained, *controlled* flight in a heavier-than-air machine.
That's what intelligent and knowledgeable people claim for the Wrights.
While many of the design components of the Wright Flyer that led to its
success were not inventions of the Wrights (superposed planes, high
aspect ratio, curved wing surfaces, elevators - and so it goes on) -
there Wrights added a couple of critical elements of their own. Most
significant of all was the fact that the Wright Flyer was controllable
in *all three axes* -- that was the real breakthrough (plus the use of
co-ordinated rudder and roll control to effect turns). The Wrights'
adoption of aerodynamic roll control is what we should be celebrating on
the 17th, because it's that that led to the final emergence (after at
least 100 years of development) of the true aeroplane.

The aeroplane took a long time to evolve - and it was an evolution, not
an invention, despite what popular histories and TV science might have
you believe. The first significant breakthrough came with Cayley's
identification of the four forces of flight -- an insight without which
the Wrights would never have got started. Over the next 100 years, there
were many advances -- so much so that the basic form of the aeroplane
was already defined before the Wrights ever became interested, thanks to
the like of Pénaud, Wenham et al. And there were many near-successes.

But the fact is, the aeroplane is not one invention, but numerous
inventions and concepts flying in close formation. It needed all the
pieces to be in place for the final success to come.

The Wrights are often portrayed as great scientists. They weren't. Their
greatest breakthroughs (such as choice of wing camber) came about as the
result of trial & error, not the true scientific method of
hypothesis-experiment-theory. However, they were great engineers, and
it's that skill that gave them the insight to add those final key
elements to the design of the aeroplane.

Of course, people like easy labels, and the Wrights themselves were keen
to adopt the title of 'inventors of the aeroplane' (they were, above
everything, businessmen). In such a simplistic worldview, it's not
surprising that competitors for the crown keep appearing: but of all the
contenders, Ader is one of the most feeble.

The Eole lacked any real control surfaces - no rudder or elevator and
just a horribly complex wing-moving mechanism. It achieved a height in
flight, in 1890, of about eight inches, purely due to power - pure grunt
force that owed nothing to aerodynamics. As for the Avion III, in 1897,
this was blown off its circular track by a gust of wind - a failure made
plain by the official report of the time that put an end to Ader's
funding. However, the report didn't actually appear until 1910, so Ader
took the opportunity, in 1906, to lie about his 'successes' - claiming
that he'd made a second flight in the Eole, twice the distance of the
first (which was 165ft), and that he'd flown 1,000ft in the Avion III.

The claims that Ader was first keep reappearing. The sad truth is, it's
based on lies. He has no more claim than other 'brute force' types like
Maxim.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
flight.

Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html

Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore

Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
http://www.weisskopf.de/

Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm

Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html


May be the first kiter:
Otto Lilienthal, 1891
http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm


There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
Wright
Brothers were even born.

Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm


the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
USamercians.

bye
m. vanselow

Damn French, always claiming they did it first.



"vanselow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
flight.

Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html

Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore

Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
http://www.weisskopf.de/

Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm

Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html


May be the first kiter:
Otto Lilienthal, 1891
http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm


There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
Wright
Brothers were even born.

Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm


the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
USamercians.

bye
m. vanselow

vanselow wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?


There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
flight.

Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html

Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore

Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
http://www.weisskopf.de/

Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm

Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html


May be the first kiter:
Otto Lilienthal, 1891
http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm


There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
Wright
Brothers were even born.

Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm


the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
USamercians.

Nonsense. None of these stand up to scrutiny. I've already dealt with
Ader's false claims. Whitehead made an uncontrolled hop and later tried
to boost his claim into something it wasn't. Pearse made some hops - but
in all these cases, not one of the aircraft was capable of lateral
control. As I've already said, the key contribution of the Wrights was
to produce an aircraft capable of aerodynamic control in all three axes.
Theirs was the first (and for several years after, the only) aircraft to
have actual roll control capable of turning the aircraft in the way we
do it now (all others were trying to turn the aircraft using rudder). So
yes, although there were many hops into the air before the Wrights, none
of these were in aircraft capable of full control. Also, most (such as
Ader) achieved these hops through pure brute force - the aircraft were
not capable of sustaining flight because their 'flight' was more
ballistic than aerodynamic. So the claim that the Wrights were the first
to achieve powered, sustained, controlled flight in a heavier-than-air
craft is unassailable.

The sad thing about all this hoopla surrounding the Wrights is that it
is so distorted. The Wrights did not invent the aeroplane - that had
started at least a century before (earlier claims for people like
Leonardo don't stand up). If you want to give the credit for the
intellectual process of inventing the aeroplane, that should go to
George Cayley and the publication of his 'On Aerial Navigation' papers
in 1809/10. Cayley identified the four forces of flight - the defining
and critical concept that underlies the aeroplane. However, the Wrights
took what existed in the way of knowledge, added a little of their own,
then applied their engineering excellence to make it all *work* - and
that's why they get the credit.

The irony is that, just six years after they first flew, the Wright
design of aircraft (which was inherently unstable) was already obsolete,
replaced by a European concept which is the true ancestor of today's
aeroplanes. That European concept, however, would not have worked
without the Wrights' contribution of three-axis aerodynamic control.


Therefore, the claim that the Wrights made the first

Hi,

I'm not French,
but that is what people know today.
It is much more then a doubt, that the brother Wright did it first.

regards
m. vanselow

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 05:33:17 GMT, "Troy Towner"
wrote:

Damn French, always claiming they did it first.



"vanselow" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Platon67" wrote in message
...

Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)


Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
flight.

Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html

Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore

Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
http://www.weisskopf.de/

Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm

Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html


May be the first kiter:
Otto Lilienthal, 1891
http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm


There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
Wright
Brothers were even born.

Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm


the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
USamercians.

bye
m. vanselow