Russian Tu-160 Blackjack bombers land in Venezuela - Peter the Greatnuclear-powered heavy missile cruiser and battle group on the way

On Sep 11, 5:50*pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 11:21 am, "William Black"
wrote:



"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

....
On Sep 11, 10:47 am, " wrote:

On Sep 11, 10:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise,
it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the
American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, more to the point, the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in
their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence
Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida
men
are
being treated today.

--
William Black

Deservedly so. Actually, al Qaeda guys at least have the
possibility of a trial.

I will say that my grandparents and great grandparents lived for a
while in Jamesport Missouri. I think they would not share your opinion
of the fake colonel. He claimed he got a colonelcy in Richmond but no
one else knew about it.

-------------------------

Quantrill and Anderson most certainly did have commissions.

The issue of Quantrill's colonel's commission is gone into in great detail
in a book called 'the Devil Knows How to Ride' and the conclusion seems to
be that:

1. He was certainly commissioned, he is noted in several letters by men
who had no reason to admire him as having used it to avoid 'conventional'
military service for his men.

2. He led a group of regimental size with a number of officers under him.

The title 'colonel' was probably as valid as any other officer of that
rank
who commanded a 'locally raised unit'.

It is interesting to note that Anderson, another 'Missouri guerrilla' who
certainly had a valid commission, this one from Sterling Price, is
referred to as 'Major Anderson' in his orders, also from Sterling Price....

Maybe you could give me a page for that cite.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rJN...lpg=PA119&dq=t...

Can't, *sorry, *I no longer own the book.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

I gave you the online address of the Google copy

I'd like to see...
base 2 to 4 B-1B Lancer strategic bombers in a friendly South
American country and have a B-2 from Whiteman AFB fly over both the
base where the TU-160s are and the Russian ships.

So what would the point of such international incident and intentional
violations of borders be?

Make sure Venezuela buys more Russian equipment?
Alienate the Middle/South American states even more?
Create a new conflict in the Middle/South America agaist American states?

Good luck with that.

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 5:50 pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 11:21 am, "William Black"
wrote:



"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 10:47 am, " wrote:

On Sep 11, 10:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise,
it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the
American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform
out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, more to the point, the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in
their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence
Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida
men
are
being treated today.

--
William Black

Deservedly so. Actually, al Qaeda guys at least have the
possibility of a trial.

I will say that my grandparents and great grandparents lived for a
while in Jamesport Missouri. I think they would not share your opinion
of the fake colonel. He claimed he got a colonelcy in Richmond but no
one else knew about it.

-------------------------

Quantrill and Anderson most certainly did have commissions.

The issue of Quantrill's colonel's commission is gone into in great
detail
in a book called 'the Devil Knows How to Ride' and the conclusion seems
to
be that:

1. He was certainly commissioned, he is noted in several letters by men
who had no reason to admire him as having used it to avoid
'conventional'
military service for his men.

2. He led a group of regimental size with a number of officers under
him.

The title 'colonel' was probably as valid as any other officer of that
rank
who commanded a 'locally raised unit'.

It is interesting to note that Anderson, another 'Missouri guerrilla'
who
certainly had a valid commission, this one from Sterling Price, is
referred to as 'Major Anderson' in his orders, also from Sterling
Price...

Maybe you could give me a page for that cite.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rJN...lpg=PA119&dq=t...

Can't, sorry, I no longer own the book.


I gave you the online address of the Google copy

-------------------------------

I looked, I even asked it to download, I can't get it to open...

But I rang up the guy who has my copy and he says that the footnote on page
294 refers to Quantrill's commission and the fact that he's referred to as
'captain' in several official confederate documents.



--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

People forget there were a ton of troops and supplies tied up in
Missouri in the war. Without that, war might have been over faster.
Wasn't the nicest war either, on either side. Bloody Kansas wasn't
just an adjective. Both sides were pretty bad, once the Union came in,
lots of farms were burned, families were moved, wives were locked up
in jail (and in one case died with the building collapsed - leading to
reprisals by the Confederates).

There were numerous Civil War battles in Missouri, the entire length
and breadth of the state. Back in the days when an army moved on its
feet.

In the opening days, Bluebellies got whupped. Came from St Louis and
moved to Jefferson City, ran back.

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...


he might have secured a captaincy but there is nothing official to back
that up and he never commanded a regiment,

Both Quantrill and Anderson were undoubtedly commissioned.


undoubted by you. doubted by everybody else.



Quantrill was called 'colonel' by his men and we have documentary
evidence that Anderson was considered a major by his commanding general.


harlan sanders was called colonel by his men too. its a southern thing.



A lot of people have, over the years, pretended that these men acted
without proper oversight by their government.


they did operate without any oversite.
jeff davis might have been a traitor but quantrill and anderson were not
the type of men he approved of.




The extant evidence, and accounts at the time, seems to indicate that
in fact they operated as units of the confederate 'state'.


show this evidence. i've never seen it


Try reading books Ray.

--
William Black


i have, including some on confederate partisans.

"frank" wrote in message
...
People forget there were a ton of troops and supplies tied up in
Missouri in the war. Without that, war might have been over faster.
Wasn't the nicest war either, on either side. Bloody Kansas wasn't
just an adjective. Both sides were pretty bad, once the Union came in,
lots of farms were burned, families were moved, wives were locked up
in jail (and in one case died with the building collapsed - leading to
reprisals by the Confederates).

There were numerous Civil War battles in Missouri, the entire length
and breadth of the state. Back in the days when an army moved on its
feet.

In the opening days, Bluebellies got whupped. Came from St Louis and
moved to Jefferson City, ran back.



general samuel curtis would dispute your little blurb. he defeated the
traitors at every turn in Mo..

"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...


he might have secured a captaincy but there is nothing official to
back that up and he never commanded a regiment,

Both Quantrill and Anderson were undoubtedly commissioned.


undoubted by you. doubted by everybody else.



Quantrill was called 'colonel' by his men and we have documentary
evidence that Anderson was considered a major by his commanding
general.


harlan sanders was called colonel by his men too. its a southern thing.



A lot of people have, over the years, pretended that these men acted
without proper oversight by their government.


they did operate without any oversite.
jeff davis might have been a traitor but quantrill and anderson were not
the type of men he approved of.




The extant evidence, and accounts at the time, seems to indicate that
in fact they operated as units of the confederate 'state'.


show this evidence. i've never seen it


Try reading books Ray.

--
William Black


i have, including some on confederate partisans.

No evidence of that so far...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Sep 11, 8:09*pm, "William Black"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 5:50 pm, "William Black"
wrote:



"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

....
On Sep 11, 11:21 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

....
On Sep 11, 10:47 am, " wrote:

On Sep 11, 10:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 7:24 am, Bill Kambic wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT), Rob Arndt

wrote:
This is only news if the West chooses to make it news; otherwise,
it
is really nothing extraordinary, nor will it bring back the Cold
War...

The Cold War is over and is as much a part of history as the
American
Civil War.

What you see now is a resurgence of Russian Nationalism and a new
round of the The Great Game. If more prople studied history they
would know what they are looking at.

Yes, think of grandpop back in the 1890s, pulling his old uniform
out
of the trunk, brushing it off and wearing it into town on the Fourth
of July.

-----------------------

Or, more to the point, the men of Quantrill's Raiders dressing up in
their
old uniforms to have a reunion on the date of their raid on Lawrence
Kansas.

During the American Civil War they were treated very like al Quaida
men
are
being treated today.

--
William Black

Deservedly so. Actually, al Qaeda guys at least have the
possibility of a trial.

I will say that my grandparents and great grandparents lived for a
while in Jamesport Missouri. I think they would not share your opinion
of the fake colonel. He claimed he got a colonelcy in Richmond but no
one else knew about it.

-------------------------

Quantrill and Anderson most certainly did have commissions.

The issue of Quantrill's colonel's commission is gone into in great
detail
in a book called 'the Devil Knows How to Ride' and the conclusion seems
to
be that:

1. He was certainly commissioned, he is noted in several letters by men
who had no reason to admire him as having used it to avoid
'conventional'
military service for his men.

2. He led a group of regimental size with a number of officers under
him.

The title 'colonel' was probably as valid as any other officer of that
rank
who commanded a 'locally raised unit'.

It is interesting to note that Anderson, another 'Missouri guerrilla'
who
certainly had a valid commission, this one from Sterling Price, is
referred to as 'Major Anderson' in his orders, also from Sterling
Price...

Maybe you could give me a page for that cite.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rJN...lpg=PA119&dq=t...

Can't, sorry, I no longer own the book.

I gave you the online address of the Google copy

-------------------------------

I looked, *I even asked it to download, I can't get it to open...

But I rang up the guy who has my copy and he says that the footnote on page
294 refers to Quantrill's commission and the fact that he's referred to as
'captain' in several official confederate documents.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, *like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

I wonder. No one will admit that they commissioned Quantrill at the
time, everything seems to be made up. Even a pay voucher can lie, God
knows they did for a lot of Mosby's antics and he was one of the
"good" rangers. With the abolishment of the partisan rangers I would
assume Quantrill would lose his commission whatever it was. By the
way we seem to have had this same discussion in February (which year
isn't made clear). Do a "search this group" for Quantrell/Quantrill.
"Don't be parochial"

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...

I wonder. No one will admit that they commissioned Quantrill at the
time, everything seems to be made up. Even a pay voucher can lie, God
knows they did for a lot of Mosby's antics and he was one of the
"good" rangers. With the abolishment of the partisan rangers I would
assume Quantrill would lose his commission whatever it was. By the
way we seem to have had this same discussion in February (which year
isn't made clear). Do a "search this group" for Quantrell/Quantrill.
"Don't be parochial"

----------------------------

OK, two issues.

First of all we'll settle Anderson.

When he was killed his orders were found on him. In them he is referred to
as 'Major Anderson's by General Sterling Price, a man who was authorised to
raise troops and issue commissions.

Anderson was undoubtedly a commissioned officer in the forces of the
confederacy at the time of his death.

Now Quantrill.

There are certainly accounts of him swanning about in Richmond flashing a
commission he claimed was signed by Jefferson Davis himself.

He is referred to in many contemporary official confederate documents as an
officer, usually a captain.

The evidence seems to indicate that he held some sort of commission at some
point in the war but no papers have ever been found.

If he did have a commission signed by Jefferson Davis then it was in an
awful lot of people's interests that the document, and any references to
it, disappeared before the people who fancied hanging Davis got hold of it.

Sterling Price fled the country with the remnants of his army and returned
under rather odd circumstances to die in 1867. He wasn't available to be
dragged in front of a court for commissioning Anderson and legitimising his
murderous bunch.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.