Have you ever...

Jay Honeck wrote:

Imagine trying to know Step One to learning to fly, just by standing
in your airport terminal building.

Terminal building? No terminal I ever saw had anything to do with flight
training. That's where you go to get on an airliner. Been that way as long as
I've been above ground.

It's intimidating as hell, even at most uncontrolled fields. At a Class C
airport, you might as well be trying to break into Area 51.

No around here. Here, the FBO sees dollar signs as soon as someone walks in the
door. They fall over their tongues to show you around.

Without a mentor, most new pilots never get started. We've made airports so
inaccessible that flying has become like some sort of priesthood, where you
must be inducted into it by the Elders.

I don't know anyone who got started by a mentor. In fact, I see exactly the
opposite. At every social occassion I attend, I get introduced to several people
who have their certificate. Many (maybe most) have quit flying, usually because
of family considerations. It's just not that hard to get a certificate. What's
hard is to stay enthusiastic about sinking $5,000 or more each year into boring
holes in the air over New Jersey.

The thing that will kill GA is urban sprawl. It just isn't pretty looking down
at horizon-to-horizon condos. Especially if they're built on top of what used to
be a small airport. Even if the *do* name the complex "Airport Acres."

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson" wrote

Terminal building? No terminal I ever saw had anything to do with flight
training. That's where you go to get on an airliner. Been that way as long
as
I've been above ground.

HKY (Hickory NC) has a really nice general aviation terminal. It is there
to serve people picking up a charter or business flight, and also serves a
the home of rentals and flight training.

I guess you are simply unaware of terminals of this type. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

HKY (Hickory NC) has a really nice general aviation terminal.

Been through HKY twice. They called that an FBO.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson" wrote

Been through HKY twice. They called that an FBO.

How about that! How recently?

Yes, FBO fits, but I think terminal also fits, don't you?

Had you been through a couple years ago, what they had then, was a far cry
from the facility they have now.

Delta is beginning regional jet service, starting in May. The main runway
is closed for paving, now. I hope they are able to make it a money making
success. This area could use some good commercial connections.
--
Jim in NC

Jay,

FWIW, I agree with you. It is either intimidating or extremely
repelling for someone used to smooth, customer-oriented business
practices to walk into the average FBO. The likelyhood is high that
either the place looks run-down and ratty, or it is full of
testosterone-oozing young males full of themselves.

I have the feeling this is changing and the number of friendly,
customer-oriented schools is on the rise, but at many places, things
are not easy for a newcomer.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Highflyer wrote:

A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin.

There are aircraft which go into a spiral dive after a couple of turns,
so be sure to know the spin characteristics fo yours before attempting a
spin in IMC.

Stefan

Highflyer wrote:

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...

Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then
recover underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is.
Can you imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an
intentional spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny
brains....



Edgar Bergen was a cousin once removed. I feel like I am talking to a
member of the family!

Actually those pilots did indeed have a lot of courage, but certainly NOT
tiny brains. Just the opposite.

Remember, they did NOT have gyro instruments. While it is possible, if you
are EXTREMELY careful, to make in instrument letdown through an overcast
with only a magnetic compass, a steady foot, good trim and courage it is a
lot easier to put the airplane in a stable condition that will lose altitude
quickly. Most of those airplanes would pop out of a spin in a quarter turn
or less and lose no more than two or three hundred feet while doing it. A
spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin. Most
of those early airplanes would lose less than 400 feet per turn and the
airspeed would never get over about 90 mph while in a spin. An inadvertent
spiral is the most likely outcome from trying to fly instruments without any
and that will allow the airspeed to build up well over Vne. If you attempt
to jerk the airplane out of a high speed spiral when you see ground rapidly
approaching you will probably pull the wings off. Prompt recovery from a
spin will leave you wings level and only slightly faster than normal cruise
airspeed allowing you to find a field and put the darn thing down.

Compared to the available alternatives at the time, spinning through the
overcast was actually one of the safest options available and actually
pretty hard to mess up by sloppy piloting. :-)

Letting down with only a magnetic compass is a LOT trickier, albeit
possible. Do not practice this alone or in a real overcast! In the
northern hemisphere turn to a heading of 180 degrees. Trim the airplane for
best glide speed and adjust the throttle for a descent rate not to exceed
500 fpm with 300 probably somewhat safer. Remove you hands from the
controls and SIT ON THEM. :-) Carefully, using you feet, nudge the magnetic
compass back to the big "S" whenever it begins to stray out of the window.
Nudge it gently because it is wiggly as all get out. If your airspeed
remains constant, taken care of with the trim only, and you heading does not
change, you must be flying straight. If you fly straight and continue a
steady and reasonable descent you will descend in a straight course and
eventually wind up below the overcast with a controllable descent rate. Of
course, if the hilltops extend up into the clouds you may fly into something
hard and unyielding before you see the ground below you.

Both of these techniques do work. I can attest to that personally, because
if they had not, I wouldn't be writing this today. I do not recommend these
if you have gyros available. However, I have been trapped where I had to
make an "instrument" letdown or climbout when flying in an antique airplane
that had no electrical system and no gyros of any kind. Not fun, not real
safe, but certainly doable by a properly trained pilot.

The latter doesn't work in rough air, whereas, a spining descent will.
So, as you say, the old-time pilots were actually using their brains
rather well in making a spinning descent through an impenetrable overcast.


Matt

Jay Honeck wrote:

I agree 100% that a pilot should learn to use EVERYTHING in the panel.
But does this specialized knowledge need to be tested on the Private
written
exam? Are there questions about using audio panels on the Private
written?
Intercoms? Auto pilots?

If APs or Audio Panels were sufficiently standard, they might appear. VORs
are sufficiently standard.

The idea is to save expense and time, I'd think. Testing on a written is
cheaper for everyone involved than testing in the air (ie. a checkride).

[...]
I would contend that in the year 2005 navigation via VORs rests squarely
in the "optional knowledge" category, and should not be on the Private
written.

Even when victor airways were "the" way to navigate, plenty still got by
with eyes, maps, and clocks. So, in theory, VORs have *always* been
optional. Apparently, that's not sufficient to keep them off.

- Andrew

Lakeview Bill wrote:

So tonight, thousands of little heads will hit pillows in our city, with
the little kids dreaming their dreams of owning Glocks or Uzis, instead of
dreaming of owning a 172 or a Warrior.

More money for local police.

- Andrew

George Patterson writes:

Jay Honeck wrote:

It's intimidating as hell, even at most uncontrolled fields. At a Class C
airport, you might as well be trying to break into Area 51.

No around here. Here, the FBO sees dollar signs as soon as someone walks in
the door. They fall over their tongues to show you around.

I agree, at both FBOs (in NJ) I've trained at once you get in the door they're
very eager to tell anyone with that lost look about learning to fly.

Without a mentor, most new pilots never get started. We've made airports so
inaccessible that flying has become like some sort of priesthood, where you
must be inducted into it by the Elders.

I don't know anyone who got started by a mentor.

I assume what Jay means is potential new pilots...ones that never even started
flight training. Like others, I'm sure, until my mid 20's it never even
occurred to me that I _could_ become a GA pilot. I don't think I'm alone in
this because I have talked to at least three people who are considering flight
training who never would have if I didn't tell them I was taking lessons (and
this is before I've taken anyone up for a ride). There are probably lots of
potential pilots we've lost this way.

I don't know if mentoring is the way to fix this or not, and the PP written is
probably way down on the list of things I'd change about GA, but....what were
we talking about again?

Dan.

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