Procedure for calculating weight and balance

Casey Wilson writes:

In MSFS, if the gamer does not enter inputs for trim and/or W&B the
aircraft data revert to defaults.

Actually, both can be saved and then reloaded later when loading a
flight or aircraft.

That's not what I meant, though.

To some naive people the word simulator elevates the game's status far
beyond its reality -- it is a game, nothing more.

It's a simulator. If it were a game, it would be making a lot more
money.

In the US, the FAA does not recognize any time spent on the game as
valid time for anything.

There are a lot of things the FAA doesn't recognize, but the FAA isn't
any kind of final authority on aviation.

I loaded MSFS onto my computer and spent several hours with it using
yoke, rudder pedals, and throttle controls. I did a serious comparison of it
to the Cessna 172SP that I was flying at the time and as a legitimate
simulation I rated it poorly.

Other people report just the opposite.

I still have it on my computer although the only use it gets is
when my grandson comes for a visit.

Of course.

Since he has many hours in the right
seat of 172s with both his dad and me, including lots of stick time, I once
asked him what he thought about flying the 172 in MSFS. Using the cliche --
out of the mouth of babes -- came the quote: "It's bogus."

You're clearly both far, far above this mere game.

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TxSrv writes:

You know what? It's "default position," or that this odd
and irrelevant piece of information is not in the POH?

I know that it's not in the POH.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

I know that it's not in the POH.

Then you may have read my plane's POH, but certainly have
never flown one. Else you'd know how trim works and why
there's no "default position."

F--

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Thomas Borchert writes:

Why would "neutral trim" be important?

It allows for maximum control movement in both directions.


It Does??? well... that is news to me

Changing the trim setting does not change the set screws (Stop bolts) that
limit the amount of Rudder, Aileron or Elevator travel.

BT

see
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...A-S-8083-1.pdf
W&B handbook
and
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...lane_handbook/
and
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...a/ac90-89a.pdf
am. flight testing


"TxSrv" wrote in message
. ..
| Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| I know that it's not in the POH.
|
| Then you may have read my plane's POH, but certainly have
| never flown one. Else you'd know how trim works and why
| there's no "default position."
|
| F--

BT writes:

Changing the trim setting does not change the set screws (Stop bolts) that
limit the amount of Rudder, Aileron or Elevator travel.

But it does control how far you are from each stop.

If you trim to pitch the aircraft upwards, for example, in order to
eliminate the pesky need to hold the yoke way back, you may only be a
short distance from the limit of your elevator travel. If you then
become complacent and forget how much you've trimmed, and you suddenly
need more elevator travel, you're out of luck. With a more neutral
trim, you have plenty of travel in both directions if you need it.

You can adjust your throttle so that you can remain level with zero
trim. Or you can adjust your trim so that you remain level, pitching
upwards as necessary. In the first case, you have plenty of safety
margin on both sides; in the second case, you have very little margin
to pitch up further, and if you suddenly need to climb and cannot, bad
things can happen.

This is why I prefer to stay near neutral trim. If I'm not in a rush,
for example, I'll maintain altitude by adjusting the throttle until I
can trim to zero. That way I have full elevator travel in both
directions if I need it. And since this usually results in a lower
throttle setting and slower speed as long as I'm not close to my
ceiling, I have a good margin for thrust and speed as well.

I will make an exception sometimes and trim down for high speeds,
since that isn't as risky as the inverse.

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weight * arm = moment
they are not synonymous

total moments, divided my total weight = the current CG location
it has nothing to do with "zero trim"
BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Orval Fairbairn writes:

All W & B calculations result from taking the sum of all moments and
dividing by the sum of the associated weights.

Sum (arm*weight) / sum (weight) = CG

The arms are referenced to the datum -- an arbitrary point -- sometimes
the LE of the wing, sometimes a point ahead of the nose; but nonetheless
it is THE reference point for a given aircraft.

The POH will list the arms for each seat, fuel, oil, baggage, etc.

OK, thanks. That doesn't seem too difficult. Apparently "moment" and
"arm" are synonyms (?).

I guess the manufacturer doesn't say exactly what point constitutes
neutral trim.

I've been experimenting with changing the payload in flight (one of
the advantages of a sim) and that helps a bit with figuring out how to
get the most neutral load distribution possible.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

But it does control how far you are from each stop.

In all horizontal tailplane designs? Guess again.

F--

TxSrv writes:

In all horizontal tailplane designs?

No, not in all designs.

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TxSrv wrote in news:aKGdnQ8INMXJoT3YnZ2dnUVZ_u-
:

Mxsmanic wrote:

No, but if I put in a lot of trim to stay level, and then I need
more control movement for an emergency, I might not have it.

For real airplanes, FAR Parts 23 and 25 contain detailed
requirements to provide for "emergency" maneuvers at all
trim settings. If you have a problem here, it's solely MSFS.
The idea that you would be concerned about such an
emergency in a flight sim is really weird. Does MSFS really
consume your life like this? Jeesh.

F--


full controll movement in cruse flight will most likely cause an
accelerated stall anyway thus adding to the emergency...