US team silence

Mak had help from the Australian team, particularly Matthew Scutter in 2016. I presume they also were cooperating on at least the final day in 2018 based on their start and finish times.

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 2:42:01 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
In the entire club, 15, and standard WGC, the US team posted a grand total of two pilot reports about what was going on

https://ussoaringteams.org/#news

Clearly there were lots of lessons learned here!

US team: you want our support. You want our money. You want our volunteer time. And yet you can't be bothered to post any news at all about the contest. Take a look at any of your competitors -- the UK team is a good example. If you're too tired to write, at least post a 30 second video of the story of the day!

John Cochrane BB

In the 2017 pilot poll, pilots who flew in a FAI National in 2017 prefer moving to FAI rules 69% to 31% with 59% of contest participants responding.

Just sayin...

Hopefully, US Team members will weigh in with a post mortem of the contest and their recommendations for changes in rules, preparation, and support. It has been suggested that some differences in our rules that our pilots can't adjust to when overseas is the cause. It will be interesting to see if any of the team pilots site a specific US rule that accounted for seven days of back page scores.

RO thinks there is an intimidation factor due to the greater amount of gaggling with its attendant close proximity maneuvering. But we get a lot of that here in pre-start gaggles, and one of the pilots had a previous life of yanking and banking an F-14, formation join ups and still likes to mix it up and try to pull some gunnery lead on other gliders at contests. Yet he finished next to last.

Although it's not in our rules, our CD's shun the long task calls common in Europe, and flying in tricky conditions with lots of lowish clouds, precip and weak lift.

And, to make it worse, five of the six pilots were "western" pilots and rarely have the chance to fly in these vital-to-win conditions.

As Kawa pointed out in his letter lambasting the contest directors at this WGC, the sport has evolved into a game of leachery complemented by intense use of Flarm for monitoring/chasing/vectoring competitors. Here we have very little of this.

Our best hope, for the immediate future at least, is for strong weather at future WGC's. My two silvers and an "almost" were at WGC's with great weather. Those with the tricky weather we rarely bother to fly in here found me grovelling on the back page.

Here's for booming weather in the Czech Republic next month. Go Team Go!

Well, to RO and KS (both have flown WGC and many US nats), I appreciate your time and thoughts.

Thanks.

I am not trying to make or sway US rule making, just seeking insight to clarify my thoughts, or, change them.

I know there has been been many "knashing of teeth" on US rules here on RAS, my question is basically, what, if anything about our rules can hinder better placing in WGC.

I know I "team flew" with a past WGC member, mostly on Fridays and maybe that helped in WGC.
We both did better.

But team sports need many hours together so you think as one.
We do it in the shop on aircraft work, you can hand a tool to someone as they are asking for it.

Not something our current rules promote.

I guess part of the question is.......do we want a US champ, or do we want to prep for WGC?

If both, then maybe our rules need to change.

At 17:09 22 July 2018, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Hopefully, US Team members will weigh in with a post mortem of
the contest
=
and their recommendations for changes in rules, preparation, and
support.
I=
t has been suggested that some differences in our rules that our
pilots
can=
't adjust to when overseas is the cause. It will be interesting to see
if
a=
ny of the team pilots site a specific US rule that accounted for
seven
days=
of back page scores.=20

RO thinks there is an intimidation factor due to the greater amount
of
gagg=
ling with its attendant close proximity maneuvering. But we get a
lot of
th=
at here in pre-start gaggles, and one of the pilots had a previous
life of
=
yanking and banking an F-14, formation join ups and still likes to
mix it
u=
p and try to pull some gunnery lead on other gliders at contests.
Yet he
fi=
nished next to last.=20

Although it's not in our rules, our CD's shun the long task calls
common
in=
Europe, and flying in tricky conditions with lots of lowish clouds,
precip=
and weak lift. =20

And, to make it worse, five of the six pilots were "western" pilots
and
rar=
ely have the chance to fly in these vital-to-win conditions.=20

As Kawa pointed out in his letter lambasting the contest directors
at this
=
WGC, the sport has evolved into a game of leachery complemented
by intense
=
use of Flarm for monitoring/chasing/vectoring competitors. Here
we have
ver=
y little of this.=20

Our best hope, for the immediate future at least, is for strong
weather at
=
future WGC's. My two silvers and an "almost" were at WGC's with
great
weath=
er. Those with the tricky weather we rarely bother to fly in here
found me
=
grovelling on the back page.

Here's for booming weather in the Czech Republic next month. Go
Team Go!


KS also has valid points. Having flown with KS at numerous
contests back in the 1980's, (before the current rules came into
effect), I can attest to his very astute abilities in leading, steering,
maneuvering in and otherwise having huge situational awareness
in large gaggles. KS also has a military formation flying
background, and I'm sure it helped him attain his gaggle flying
abilities. He always has his head on a swivel and never gets locked
onto just following the guy ahead of him. To me it is a given
prerequisite skill set to possess if one wants to do well at a WGC -
good wx or not. You have to be able make in-thermal corrections to
center the lift when the gaggle is flying "half in - half out". You have
to have the Situational Awareness (SA) to see a new wisp forming
off to the side and to lead the gaggle there from inside etc.. I had a
5th in Rieti and a 2nd in Benalla at "good wx" venues. I would not
have placed nearly as well had it not been for being able to be
effective at gaggle flying. KS mentions the pre-start gaggles in the
USA, but it's just not the same as when I'm on course. Pre-start
doesn't count for points, and accordingly pilots treat it differently. I
know that I do...

ps..Karl, I don't know if you are including Jim Lee as a "westerner"
because he's now out of Minden or not, but he was in FL for many
years prior, and before that he was a hang glider champion. I would
not be so quick to pigeon-hole him. Mike Westbrook may be from
TX now, but he spent a fair amount of time at Elmira in prior times
too. Add FS who officially hails from GA, and you have 3 of the 6
that aren't necessarily pure "westerners" experience wise....

RO

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-7, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Hopefully, US Team members will weigh in with a post mortem of the contest and their recommendations for changes in rules, preparation, and support. It has been suggested that some differences in our rules that our pilots can't adjust to when overseas is the cause. It will be interesting to see if any of the team pilots site a specific US rule that accounted for seven days of back page scores.

RO thinks there is an intimidation factor due to the greater amount of gaggling with its attendant close proximity maneuvering. But we get a lot of that here in pre-start gaggles, and one of the pilots had a previous life of yanking and banking an F-14, formation join ups and still likes to mix it up and try to pull some gunnery lead on other gliders at contests. Yet he finished next to last.

Although it's not in our rules, our CD's shun the long task calls common in Europe, and flying in tricky conditions with lots of lowish clouds, precip and weak lift.

And, to make it worse, five of the six pilots were "western" pilots and rarely have the chance to fly in these vital-to-win conditions.

As Kawa pointed out in his letter lambasting the contest directors at this WGC, the sport has evolved into a game of leachery complemented by intense use of Flarm for monitoring/chasing/vectoring competitors. Here we have very little of this.

Our best hope, for the immediate future at least, is for strong weather at future WGC's. My two silvers and an "almost" were at WGC's with great weather. Those with the tricky weather we rarely bother to fly in here found me grovelling on the back page.

Here's for booming weather in the Czech Republic next month. Go Team Go!

Do you have a link to Kawa's letter?

Tom

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 2:03:57 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-7, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Hopefully, US Team members will weigh in with a post mortem of the contest and their recommendations for changes in rules, preparation, and support. It has been suggested that some differences in our rules that our pilots can't adjust to when overseas is the cause. It will be interesting to see if any of the team pilots site a specific US rule that accounted for seven days of back page scores.

RO thinks there is an intimidation factor due to the greater amount of gaggling with its attendant close proximity maneuvering. But we get a lot of that here in pre-start gaggles, and one of the pilots had a previous life of yanking and banking an F-14, formation join ups and still likes to mix it up and try to pull some gunnery lead on other gliders at contests. Yet he finished next to last.

Although it's not in our rules, our CD's shun the long task calls common in Europe, and flying in tricky conditions with lots of lowish clouds, precip and weak lift.

And, to make it worse, five of the six pilots were "western" pilots and rarely have the chance to fly in these vital-to-win conditions.

As Kawa pointed out in his letter lambasting the contest directors at this WGC, the sport has evolved into a game of leachery complemented by intense use of Flarm for monitoring/chasing/vectoring competitors. Here we have very little of this.

Our best hope, for the immediate future at least, is for strong weather at future WGC's. My two silvers and an "almost" were at WGC's with great weather. Those with the tricky weather we rarely bother to fly in here found me grovelling on the back page.

Here's for booming weather in the Czech Republic next month. Go Team Go!

Do you have a link to Kawa's letter?

Tom

There is a rant posted on farcebook, the translation of which is sufficiently crude that I don't think it merits reposting. I don't know whether this is the "letter" referred to.

The gist of the rant is:

Sebastian dislikes passionately: flarm radar (apparently open mode flarm was required), line starts (maybe, that's a bit of an inference on my part, also referred to by a respondent on his FB page), block start times, assistance from the ground. In short, he dislikes leeching and the various rules and technology permitted which assist leeching. He also says (new to me) that cloud flying is either being permitted outright or that the prohibitions are not being enforced.

Interestingly... all of the things he dislikes are anticipated and managed by US rules....


Evan Ludeman

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 5:25:49 PM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 2:03:57 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-7, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Hopefully, US Team members will weigh in with a post mortem of the contest and their recommendations for changes in rules, preparation, and support. It has been suggested that some differences in our rules that our pilots can't adjust to when overseas is the cause. It will be interesting to see if any of the team pilots site a specific US rule that accounted for seven days of back page scores.

RO thinks there is an intimidation factor due to the greater amount of gaggling with its attendant close proximity maneuvering. But we get a lot of that here in pre-start gaggles, and one of the pilots had a previous life of yanking and banking an F-14, formation join ups and still likes to mix it up and try to pull some gunnery lead on other gliders at contests. Yet he finished next to last.

Although it's not in our rules, our CD's shun the long task calls common in Europe, and flying in tricky conditions with lots of lowish clouds, precip and weak lift.

And, to make it worse, five of the six pilots were "western" pilots and rarely have the chance to fly in these vital-to-win conditions.

As Kawa pointed out in his letter lambasting the contest directors at this WGC, the sport has evolved into a game of leachery complemented by intense use of Flarm for monitoring/chasing/vectoring competitors. Here we have very little of this.

Our best hope, for the immediate future at least, is for strong weather at future WGC's. My two silvers and an "almost" were at WGC's with great weather. Those with the tricky weather we rarely bother to fly in here found me grovelling on the back page.

Here's for booming weather in the Czech Republic next month. Go Team Go!

Do you have a link to Kawa's letter?

Tom

There is a rant posted on farcebook, the translation of which is sufficiently crude that I don't think it merits reposting. I don't know whether this is the "letter" referred to.

The gist of the rant is:

Sebastian dislikes passionately: flarm radar (apparently open mode flarm was required), line starts (maybe, that's a bit of an inference on my part, also referred to by a respondent on his FB page), block start times, assistance from the ground. In short, he dislikes leeching and the various rules and technology permitted which assist leeching. He also says (new to me) that cloud flying is either being permitted outright or that the prohibitions are not being enforced.

Interestingly... all of the things he dislikes are anticipated and managed by US rules....


Evan Ludeman

Error above: Sebastian preferred the blocked start times, but the organizers abandoned this towards the end of the contest for some reason.

I heard that the pre-start furball was even worse with the start intervals. with the start intervals, on an iffy day, everyone wants to go at the same second. Without start intervals, people don't mind being a few seconds behind at the start, or a minute or five. Rumor was at least one team was threatening to stand down if the start intervals came back.

Here's the lousy machine translation of Kawa's message to the organizers:

I'm sorry, but bitter words have to go down. 90 % of people don't want to take the tour alone and rape the director of the competition. This one gave up and deleted the sports slots for pilots who can't fly on their own. Slots make starting 2-5 min behind the leader counts the same launch time as leader. You can't let someone go and follow it. Now we have: Flarmy without competition mode, mandatory traking, earth tips, no slots on startup, no marker event on startup. It causes a distortion of the professions competition which theoretically would have to identify the best szybowników. Instead, guided tours with guide and radio-controlled models. The competition is to cut the launch line 2-5 minutes after competitors. That's it. No need to read weather, plan, work on the road. Let the leaders do it. The situation is deteriorating year after year after the introduction of flarmu and lack of mandatory competition mode. A whole range of electronic tracking specialists has been raised and those without colored gliders on the screen in szybwocu can't make any decisions. How far away are we from the idea of gliding? Formerly Digital transmission was banned - now deleted, flying on clouds banned - now this ban ignores, help from outside forbidden - now constant communication with earth. And There's a lot of complaints in the air that you don't want to fly on your own. Yeah.