I want to buy a plane by year-end but they're not making it easy.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give
demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted
to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they
could
go run a quick credit check on you.

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined
that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down
payment.


I don't think anyone is allowed to run a credit check with out your
permission. Not all states use a ssn as a DL number.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"T.Roger" wrote in message
. com...
I don't have my ticket yet -- and I'm really committed because I want to
buy
my own plane to train and fly -- and I want to take advantage of the tax
write-off about to expire at year end.

I've been at this since August.
But, hell, they're not making it easy.

All I've asked of Cirrus, Piper and Tiger is if I can demo their damned
planes before I buy. But if you don't have your ticket they don't want
to
know you. They take the position that I should secure the financing for
the
particular plane before I demo. I take the position that I'm not going
to
waste my time if I'm not in love with the plane. I tell them that I'm
relegated to buying a C172 because that's the only plane I know and
they're
not making it easy for me to consider anything else. They take the
position
that "...every customer who's bought their 'so-and-so-brand-plane' has
never
regretted it and has never gone back to a C172. I say: kiss my a**: if
I'm
going to effort to run around trying to convince a bank to finance my
purchase @ $200,000 or more (you know what that's like) then I want to
know
what in hell I'm buying!! They're sort of saying: marry me and then
you'll
find out if you love me.

So far, I haven't had one demo since I started the search in August.
I thought GA was hurting; I guess not.

I train in C172's, and I guess that's what Cirrus, Piper and Tiger want
me
to buy because they don't seem interested in my business.


It is probably too late now but when asked for financial information that
I
think is unjustified, I have always jsut said: "No, I am not going to
provide that". I am fairly certain that nobody with any real net worth
would disclose their financials to a salesman.

Mike
MU-2



Nope not to the sales man but maybe to a finance manager!

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give
demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted
to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they
could
go run a quick credit check on you.

Most states (??) don't use the SSN on the drivers license (optional for some
states).

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined
that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down
payment.

What did you drive into the dealership in? Beater or newer comparable model.

On the other hand, Mercedes-Benz dealers won't give any test
drives...period. I showed up to look at an E500 in my wife's one year old
Infiniti Q-45 and they still wanted me to buy it without driving it.
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

My reaction was even worse than yours. I told them that if their product was
so bad that they could only sell it to people who had not flown it, then I
did not want one. And, if they could not be trusted to show up for a
meeting, I certainly could not trust them with a deposit.

However. If you give me your name and the city you live in, I will see what
I can do about getting you a demo.



"T.Roger" wrote in message
. com...
A deposit isn't the problem for me. I just don't want to deposit money into
a mystery venture, as the aircraft sellers would want me to do.


"Dude" wrote in message
...
As someone else said, there are plenty of tire kickers asking plane
sellers for demo flights. I have seen this happen before, and there is
likely something about your approach that is making them think you are
not a serious buyer.

Also, many insurers balk at student pilots, especially on a Cirrus. At
any rate, tell us where you are, or how to contact you and maybe I can
help you out. I know a few low people in high places, and would be happy
to help you.

I went through all sorts of frustration buying my first new plane. I
even got stood up for an appointment after traveling halfway across the
country to see a plane. Then with barely an apology, they started
twisting my arm for a deposit over the phone!

OTOH, the guy I bought my plane from was top notch, and I still call him
every now and then to say hi. The best and the worst seem to get into
aviation, and not that much in between.




You do not have to buy the plane buy year end to get bonus depreciation
"T.Roger" wrote in message
. com...
I don't have my ticket yet -- and I'm really committed because I want to
buy
my own plane to train and fly -- and I want to take advantage of the tax
write-off about to expire at year end.

I've been at this since August.
But, hell, they're not making it easy.

All I've asked of Cirrus, Piper and Tiger is if I can demo their damned
planes before I buy. But if you don't have your ticket they don't want
to
know you. They take the position that I should secure the financing for
the
particular plane before I demo. I take the position that I'm not going
to
waste my time if I'm not in love with the plane. I tell them that I'm
relegated to buying a C172 because that's the only plane I know and
they're
not making it easy for me to consider anything else. They take the
position
that "...every customer who's bought their 'so-and-so-brand-plane' has
never
regretted it and has never gone back to a C172. I say: kiss my a**: if
I'm
going to effort to run around trying to convince a bank to finance my
purchase @ $200,000 or more (you know what that's like) then I want to
know
what in hell I'm buying!! They're sort of saying: marry me and then
you'll
find out if you love me.

So far, I haven't had one demo since I started the search in August.
I thought GA was hurting; I guess not.

I train in C172's, and I guess that's what Cirrus, Piper and Tiger want
me
to buy because they don't seem interested in my business.

It is legal to run a credit check on anyone if you do it for a legitimate
business purpose. Auto dealers can run a check on you without your
permission.

However, since FICO scores reflect a negative value for each recent check,
many business have started asking permission to avoid damaging your credit
and getting a bad reaction from you.



"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give
demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted
to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they
could
go run a quick credit check on you.

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined
that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down
payment.


I don't think anyone is allowed to run a credit check with out your
permission. Not all states use a ssn as a DL number.

Having driven many of them, I understand why they would not want you to
drive it.

The BMW has a much better driving experience.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give
demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted
to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they
could
go run a quick credit check on you.

Most states (??) don't use the SSN on the drivers license (optional for
some
states).

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined
that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down
payment.

What did you drive into the dealership in? Beater or newer comparable
model.

On the other hand, Mercedes-Benz dealers won't give any test
drives...period. I showed up to look at an E500 in my wife's one year old
Infiniti Q-45 and they still wanted me to buy it without driving it.
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

NW_PILOT wrote:


I don't think anyone is allowed to run a credit check with out your
permission. Not all states use a ssn as a DL number.


Chortle...of course they run them without your permission.
Virginia only switched away from SSN's in the past year or so.
Many people who haven't renewed (they're good for 5 years) still
have SSN's.
'

Dude wrote:
Having driven many of them, I understand why they would not want you to
drive it.

Mercedes had a special event last summer when they invited a whole slew
of people out to the parking lot of the local pro sports team and drove
a few hot autocross laps with a professional driver (mind you they wouldn't
let us do that ourselves), they also let us test drive a few models in the
lot (at lower speeds) and test a car with AWD (or was it antilock) on a little
soapy skid pad.

All it did is convince me I didn't want a Mercedes. Even the so called
"sports" models had steering and handling that you'd expect from a limosine.

In rec.aviation.owning tony roberts wrote:
: Which Cirrus were you thinking of?
: It's a lot of cash to pay for something that isn't certified beyond 4000
: hours and can't spin - But that's a whole new thread - just sit back and
: watch

According to Rev 7 of the Cirrus TCDS (A00009CH), August 15th 2004, both
Cirrus models have an airframe life limit of 12,000 hours.
--
Aaron Coolidge

NW_PILOT wrote:

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give

demos to

customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted

to

see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they

could

go run a quick credit check on you.

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined

that

I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down

payment.


I don't think anyone is allowed to run a credit check with out your
permission. Not all states use a ssn as a DL number.



They do it, and they can prolly use your DL # to look you up even if
it's not an SSN. I took to telling them as I handed them my license "I
am specifically NOT giving you permission to run a credit check with
this information, and I'm sure your finance guy knows that I can look up
inquiries in my report to verify that you did not." That often gets a
double-take from them but they never ran the check when I told them that.