"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"

Dave,

I think that the lesson to be learned here is that you should never -
ever - respond to anonymous transmissions (for anything short of an
imminent midair). Just ignore 'em


Fully agree.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:30:13 -0700, Shirl
wrote:

In this neck o' the woods, if someone violates Class B airspace and ATC
knows who it is, they don't reprimand on the radio, they give a phone
number to call when you're on the ground. It isn't up to you to decide
what to do if you've gone into Class B airspace without the clearance.

Same in my neck.

The ol' "Call this number when you land" at towered fields, or there's
a line person waiting or on the CTAF with the message on non-towered
fields. No actual reprimand happens on the radio.

He's not ATC, so there's no rap to take.

Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the Class B
at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting across
the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might tell
them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had been
the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators.

File the NASA form, Ron. It's cheap, easy, and may protect you. We
did one, once, when Mary was dumped into Class D by an approach
controller.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the
Class B
at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting
across
the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might
tell
them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had
been
the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators.

Which I would think that the investigators know is a common trick, and
lacking any more evidence, would tell them that they don't have a case, and
it would go no further.

Am I being overly optimistic?
--
Jim in NC

The NASA report may protect you, if you can demonstrate that any incursion
was inadvertent. The typical course is that you might get a call form the
FSDO in around a week or so as part of the initial investigation.

There are two possible responses- you did not do what they assert, or you
can admit guilt. You should know that if you admit anything, it can be used
against you in an administrative action. In other words, Miranda somehow
doesn't apply.

So, if you're the honest type and say- yes, I did enter the bravo by
mistake, your statement can be used against you, with possible actions like
suspensions, revocations, remedial training, etc as a result.

I suspect that unless the guys at the bravo tracon had nothing better to do,
the matter will never go anywhere. Besides, how would they get your N
number? How did they know it was you who was flying the plane? They would
have a lot of paperwork and a big case to prove (unless you admit you did
something over the phone).

So, go ahead and file the NASA report, but it will likely not come to mean
anything.

Good luck.

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:07:28 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the
Class B
at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting
across
the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might
tell
them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had
been
the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators.

Which I would think that the investigators know is a common trick, and
lacking any more evidence, would tell them that they don't have a case, and
it would go no further.

Am I being overly optimistic?

I think the chance of any action being taken over this is near-nil. I ain't
worried...but it's interesting to speculate on how something *could* happen.
"Chances near-nil" isn't the same as "never." The ASRS form? Ohhhhh, yeah.
Already done.

As far as talking to the guy on the radio, I'm not concerned in this case. We
had a brief exchange, at the end of which he grudgingly admitted that it
probably hadn't been me. This wasn't a situation where a person flying some
anonymous Cessna was accused; I have the only Fly Baby within ~60 miles. I'd
just as soon quash any doubt that I take short cuts across the Class B. If this
would have been the "You jerk, you cut me off!" sort of thing, I would have
ignored it.

After all, I hear those all the time. :-)

A lot of folks are cautious about Auburn Airport because of the proximity of the
extension of the Sea-Tac Class B. As you can see from this VFR chart...

http://www.seaartcc.net/controller/t...s/VFRroute.jpg

....Auburn is just east of the bottom right corner of the keyway. Since all
patterns are on the *west* side, people not familiar with the area are concerned
about catching the corner. BTW, Redondo, the area where the plane supposedly
cut through the Class B, is on th coastline where it turns north right above the
"+" at the bottom of the keyway.

I've been flying from Auburn for ~25 years (and only have had a transponder for
the last ten of those). As I mentioned on my original post, I invariably go
feet-dry at Dash Point, fly due east until I hit a local mall that is near the
power lines shown on the chart linked above, then follow the power lines to the
45-entry point.

Ron Wanttaja

"S" == Shirl writes:

S and ATC knows who it is, they don't reprimand on the radio,
S they give a phone number to call when you're on the ground.

I busted a VIP TFR 1.5 years ago. Learned some things for the futu

- If ATC or anyone else asks you to "call this number" you're under no
obligation to do so. It might be a good thing to do, or not. But you
are not required to do so. In my case I did call back which was not a
good thing.

- If you do speak to a federal person don't make false statements. You
can not answer questions but don't make false answers. In my case I
told them everything, which was not a good thing.

- ASRS ("get out of jail free")? Can be meaningless. I filed and it
didn't do squat for me, not even the extra time they added on besides
the TFR violation, for failing to get a briefing.

- If you're a professional pilot you simply must have an attorney before
talking to the feds. If you violate a FAR your best course of action
may not at all be obvious.
--
We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't
scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys
me.
- Jack Handey

Just to reiterate what was said above - never ever, answer some
anonymous voice on the radio.. Continue making your position reports
and go about your business...

However there are limits... I take my plane to another field for
mechanic work... We had just finished the annual on my Super Viking,
pushed the plane out on the ramp and did the run up with extensive mag
checks, etc. (had just put brand new mags on it), and brought the oil
(fresh) temperature intot he green... Pushed it back inside (cuz it
was 20 degrees ) and put the cowlings back on... The mechanics shop
is right off the end of the runway... 20 minutes later pushed it back
out, fired up, taxied, rolled onto the runway and took off...

As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating that
I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up and mag
check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short line and
yadda yadda...
Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for
the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse...
Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3 cars
on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where the
blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped my
switch...
So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind emergency
landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there were two guys
sitting there...
"Where is the a**hole?"
They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail
lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just
remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper."
I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them to
relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has
been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while,
the radio has been silent...

denny

Denny writes:

As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating that
I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up and mag
check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short line and
yadda yadda...
Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for
the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse...
Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3 cars
on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where the
blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped my
switch...
So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind emergency
landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there were two guys
sitting there...
"Where is the a**hole?"
They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail
lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just
remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper."
I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them to
relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has
been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while,
the radio has been silent...

Was he transmitting from the ground, outside an aircraft? If so, did he have
a license to do so?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Denny writes:

As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating
that I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up
and mag check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short
line and yadda yadda...
Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for
the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse...
Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3
cars on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where
the blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped
my switch...
So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind
emergency landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there
were two guys sitting there...
"Where is the a**hole?"
They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail
lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just
remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper."
I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them
to relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has
been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while,
the radio has been silent...

Was he transmitting from the ground, outside an aircraft? If so, did
he have a license to do so?


What's it to you?


you will never fly.

Ever


Bertie