Verifying flap retraction

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

--

Roger Long

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

For what it's worth, I somehow don't find climbing out with flaps extended as
scary a prospect as having a pilot not recognize when the aircraft is close to
stall.

You should be able to recognize from the feel that the flaps have not
retracted and fly out of it. The way to be sure of doing both of these
things is to practice to learn how the plane feels and how to handle it.

Intentional touch and gos should be done with enough runway that you can put
the flap lever up, take a look, and pull power to abort if they don't move.
Aborting a landing a the last second is also a good thing to practice.

--

Roger Long



"AJW" wrote in message
...

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing
out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen
at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps
go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in
the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and
go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap
settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety
as
doing stalls.

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed
approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

For what it's worth, I somehow don't find climbing out with flaps extended
as
scary a prospect as having a pilot not recognize when the aircraft is
close to
stall.

AJW wrote:

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

I would increase my angle of attack and use the correct airspeed for the flap setting
to get the best rate of climb that I could under the circumstances. If you use the
appropriate departure airspeed for 0 degrees of flaps when you actually have 20
degrees down, the climb rate (or lack thereof) could be a problem. The longer it
takes you to realize it, the closer the trees get.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

If you use the
appropriate departure airspeed for 0 degrees of flaps when you actually have 20
degrees down, the climb rate (or lack thereof) could be a problem.

In a Cessna if you try to use a zero flap airspeed with flaps 20 you
will wonder why you have to hold it on the ground to keep it from
flying. Having the flaps stuck at 20 is no emergency.



The longer it
takes you to realize it, the closer the trees get.

In a Cessna you will shoot over those trees with no problem.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

In a Cessna if you try to use a zero flap airspeed with flaps 20 you
will wonder why you have to hold it on the ground to keep it from
flying. Having the flaps stuck at 20 is no emergency.


Neither is having a door pop open but, look how many pilots that has killed.
Anything you are not prepared to deal with is a hazard.

Not checking retraction of flaps at 20 degrees is pretty far down the list
of dangers. However, not being in the habit of checking bumps it way up
when you use 30 or 40 in a tight spot.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...

Neither is having a door pop open but, look how many pilots that has
killed.

Roger Long

I just proved that to myself today. Took off with the upper latch undone on
the Archer. Decided to go on to the next airport (five miles) and land
there to fix it. Got distracted and forgot the boost pump in the pattern.
Not a disaster, but I demonstrated to myself that a door open can be more of
a distraction than I had thought. Doh!

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

emove (AJW) wrote in message ...

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

For what it's worth, I somehow don't find climbing out with flaps extended as
scary a prospect as having a pilot not recognize when the aircraft is close to
stall.

The plane is certified to climb with full flaps. That's one of the
reasons Cessna changed from 40 degree to just 30 degree for the 172.

-Robert, CFI

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

The plane is certified to climb with full flaps.

Not very well and not at all at high density altitudes.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?