Airspeed of military planes

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:56:39 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote in Message-Id: 7txQb.59481$zs4.25455@fed1read01:

It's called See and Be Seen.. proper use of the Mark1 Eyeball and proper
scanning techniques.

Unfortunately, F-16s are incapable of displaying a landing light in
flight, so their conspicuity is greatly reduced. Worse than that is
the inability of the GA flight to successfully avoid a high-speed
low-leval military flight by the time it is perceptible in his
windscreen.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:51:55 GMT, Nathan Young
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I assume most aircraft have a military version of TCAD/TCAS? Does
this give suficient heads up to keep separation from the slow moving
GA traffic?

Think again. Military pilots flying in excess of 250 knots below
10,000' not only lack TCAD/TCAS, but are NOT REQUIRED to employ
they're on-board radar (which you and I purchased) to scan for GA
traffic! When a GA flight is disintegrated by a meteoric F-16, the
airman (ir)responsible for the "mishap" is given a verbal reprimand!
Unfortunately, it's impossible for a GA pilot to avoid a high-speed
F-16 on a collision course; by the time the traffic is perceptible in
the windscreen, there is inadequate time to maneuver clear. The FAA
has abrogated their responsibility to provide a safe NAS, in favor of
renegade military aviation.


--
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while
bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
ws.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.



On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:41:45 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote in Message-Id: 9ImQb.59286$zs4.54931@fed1read01:

"it depends"..

When I was flying the B-1, we would accelerate to 360 knots on climb out..
Coming back down into traffic pattern it was 300knts below 10K
Our flap / gear speed is 240knt (the buzzer comes on below 240knts if the
flaps are not out)

But for low level in IR training routes, we planned 540knt, 500-1500ft AGL
Those IR routes are not in MOA or restricted airspace, but can be, and they
are on the VFR charts for a reason.

BT




Oh, you mean like the military pilot who, on November 16, 2000, lead
his flight in excess of 450 knots through busy Miami Class B and Tampa
C airspace without a clearance ending in a midair collision with a
Cessna 172 under positive air traffic control and its ATP rated flight
instructor pilot scattered over four acres of golf course?* The
Associated Press reported that the military found verbal reprimand to
be appropriate reprimand for the irresponsible conduct of the lead
airman whose unbelievable hubris left the Cessna pilot's daughter an
orphan.


*
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...A028A &akey=1

I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

Glenn


On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 01:59:28 GMT, "Tetsuji Rai"
wrote:

Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.

"Glenn Westfall" wrote
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

I've heard that F-15's and Mig-29's are pigs below 400 knots :-)
The AOA is probably in the teens by 250 knots...

I can't comment on the MiG but having fought Eagles many times over the
years, I can say that both the light and dark gray versions are remarkably
agile at speeds well below 400KIAS.

As for the "250 below 10" thing, it not only depends on the jet one flies
but also where you're flying it. MOAs, Restricted Areas and VR/IR routes
are the most common exceptions, but any high traffic terminal area warrants
compliance -- either by regulation or common sense. Most TACAIR use
300-400kt climb schedules to intercept an IMN somewhere above 10K'.

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:lQnQb.6287$ce2.322@okepread03...
"Glenn Westfall" wrote
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

I've heard that F-15's and Mig-29's are pigs below 400 knots :-)
The AOA is probably in the teens by 250 knots...

Hi Susan. I don't know if I've just missed your previous posts or not,
but I'm not familiar with your military career, and it'd be interesting to
hear from another military pilot in these parts. So what did you fly? For
how long? Cheers,

Tony

"Susan VanCamp" wrote in message
ink.net...
I can't comment on the MiG but having fought Eagles many times over the
years, I can say that both the light and dark gray versions are remarkably
agile at speeds well below 400KIAS.

As for the "250 below 10" thing, it not only depends on the jet one flies
but also where you're flying it. MOAs, Restricted Areas and VR/IR routes
are the most common exceptions, but any high traffic terminal area
warrants
compliance -- either by regulation or common sense. Most TACAIR use
300-400kt climb schedules to intercept an IMN somewhere above 10K'.

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:lQnQb.6287$ce2.322@okepread03...
"Glenn Westfall" wrote
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

I've heard that F-15's and Mig-29's are pigs below 400 knots :-)
The AOA is probably in the teens by 250 knots...

"Tony Volk" wrote

Hi Susan. I don't know if I've just missed your previous posts or not,
but I'm not familiar with your military career, and it'd be interesting to
hear from another military pilot in these parts. So what did you fly? For
how long? Cheers,

I think she meant she was a civilian interacting with the federal boys.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:58:40 -0600, S. Sampson wrote:

"Glenn Westfall" wrote
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

I've heard that F-15's and Mig-29's are pigs below 400 knots :-)
The AOA is probably in the teens by 250 knots...

I'm certainly not an authority on this, but I thought dog fights normally
took place in the 300 - 400 knot range. If that's the case, I
doubt performance is pig-like below 400.

F-15 pulling 7-8 Gs at 400kts at sealevel is hardly pig-like

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:58:40 -0600, S. Sampson wrote:

"Glenn Westfall" wrote
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000. We usually
only worry about slowing them down if they are being sequenced to
follow another aircraft. Close to final, they will usually slow
themselves to 250 Kts or slower unless told otherwise.

I've heard that F-15's and Mig-29's are pigs below 400 knots :-)
The AOA is probably in the teens by 250 knots...

I'm certainly not an authority on this, but I thought dog fights normally
took place in the 300 - 400 knot range. If that's the case, I
doubt performance is pig-like below 400.